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#11
11-16-2005, 01:16 AM
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Re: 30/60 High, calling with str8 to get overcalls
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] I think I would reraise sixth, if they both have trips or two pair, I'd imagine your equity goes up quite a bit by getting one to fold. If he calls anyway, thats good as well. [/ QUOTE ] Do you mean reraise 5th or raise 6th? I think that my equity might actually go down if they both have 2 pair and my raise gets one of them to fold, especially given that their pair cards are dead...I'll check it out on twodimes.net to see. [/ QUOTE ] No, I like the call on fifth, but there could definitely be a case made for raising. I like a raise on sixth for my stated reasons. I'm interested in the sims if you think your equity would go down by knocking out someone on sixth. Mike 
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#12
11-16-2005, 01:20 AM
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Re: 30/60 High, calling with str8 to get overcalls
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] Game Friday? [/ QUOTE ] Yes please Mike? you in? [/ QUOTE ] Mike is in Florida and said he'll let me know midweek if he can play. Looks like there is a ton of interest for a game this Friday, so there will be one...people that give me good feedback in this thread get first dibs at a seat;-)
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#13
11-16-2005, 01:23 AM
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Re: 30/60 High, calling with str8 to get overcalls
[ QUOTE ]
Once you hit the 3rd heart on 6th I think you should raise. -You'll come off like you are trying to raise on a 4 flush -By then the pot is big enough that if you don't mind not letting a 2 - pair draw [/ QUOTE ] Doesn't it look like I am raising on a made flush as opposed to a 4 flush?
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#14
11-16-2005, 01:28 AM
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Re: 30/60 High, calling with str8 to get overcalls
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] Game Friday? [/ QUOTE ] Yes please Mike? you in? [/ QUOTE ] Mike is in Florida and said he'll let me know midweek if he can play. Looks like there is a ton of interest for a game this Friday, so there will be one...people that give me good feedback in this thread get first dibs at a seat;-) [/ QUOTE ] Damn all of you DC people and your home games [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]
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#15
11-16-2005, 01:51 AM
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Re: 30/60 High, calling with str8 to get overcalls
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] Once you hit the 3rd heart on 6th I think you should raise. -You'll come off like you are trying to raise on a 4 flush -By then the pot is big enough that if you don't mind not letting a 2 - pair draw [/ QUOTE ] Doesn't it look like I am raising on a made flush as opposed to a 4 flush? [/ QUOTE ] It might, but you didnt raise on 4th....so your opponents might not put you on that hand precisely. It will be in your range...but it won't be the only thing in the range.
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#16
11-16-2005, 01:54 AM
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Re: 30/60 High, calling with str8 to get overcalls
I don't play a lot of three-handed $30/60, but I think third street is a fold. Since you decided to play, I would absolutely raise fifth. You'd raise with a variety of hands, right? Why not raise when you actually have the goods. The raise isn't going anywhere, and the bettor probably isn't either. Go ahead and build yourself a pot. I'd raise sixth as well.
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#17
11-16-2005, 01:56 AM
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Re: 30/60 High, calling with str8 to get overcalls
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] I think I would reraise sixth, if they both have trips or two pair, I'd imagine your equity goes up quite a bit by getting one to fold. If he calls anyway, thats good as well. [/ QUOTE ] Do you mean reraise 5th or raise 6th? I think that my equity might actually go down if they both have 2 pair and my raise gets one of them to fold, especially given that their pair cards are dead...I'll check it out on twodimes.net to see. [/ QUOTE ] Your equity in the pot will go up because there will be fewer opponents (hense you'll win more). But your EV might go down a bit if the gain you get from increased equity doesn't make up the lose of a BB (or 2). Overall it will probably be a wash or close to it. I say you risk losing .1 BB in EV (at most) to decrease your varience.
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#18
11-16-2005, 02:24 AM
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Re: 30/60 High, calling with str8 to get overcalls
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] Once you hit the 3rd heart on 6th I think you should raise. -You'll come off like you are trying to raise on a 4 flush -By then the pot is big enough that if you don't mind not letting a 2 - pair draw [/ QUOTE ] Doesn't it look like I am raising on a made flush as opposed to a 4 flush? [/ QUOTE ] It might, but you didnt raise on 4th....so your opponents might not put you on that hand precisely. It will be in your range...but it won't be the only thing in the range. [/ QUOTE ] Good point, but the standard play with a 4 flush in 2nd position in a 3 way pot on 4th is to call and let the 3rd man in because your chance of winning doesn't go down much in a multiway pot with a 4 flush. If I was in 3rd position on 4th, the raise would be standard.
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#19
11-16-2005, 02:47 AM
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Twodimes Sims and my solution
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] I think I would reraise sixth, if they both have trips or two pair, I'd imagine your equity goes up quite a bit by getting one to fold. If he calls anyway, thats good as well. [/ QUOTE ] Do you mean reraise 5th or raise 6th? I think that my equity might actually go down if they both have 2 pair and my raise gets one of them to fold, especially given that their pair cards are dead...I'll check it out on twodimes.net to see. [/ QUOTE ] Your equity in the pot will go up because there will be fewer opponents (hense you'll win more). But your EV might go down a bit if the gain you get from increased equity doesn't make up the lose of a BB (or 2). Overall it will probably be a wash or close to it. I say you risk losing .1 BB in EV (at most) to decrease your varience. [/ QUOTE ] I did a bunch of twodimes sims, and as usually they were VERY enlightening; I suggest that everyone spend less time playing and more time on twodimes (especially in multiway pots). I am now pretty sure of what the optimal line is (in white for those who actually want to do the sims themselves first): <font color="white"> Call 5th, raise 6th & fold to a 3 bet, bet 7th if checked to or crying call a single bet (or check raise) but fold to a double bet cold. </font>. The 5th and 6th st. plays are dependant on assigning high probabilities to specific hands for each opponent, but I think this is fairly easy to do with this hand. I'm going to bed now, but I'll explain what my reads and reasoning for this line of play after I hear some what some of your reads are.
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#20
11-16-2005, 03:06 AM
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Calling on 3rd st.
[ QUOTE ]
I don't play a lot of three-handed $30/60, but I think third street is a fold. Since you decided to play, I would absolutely raise fifth. You'd raise with a variety of hands, right? Why not raise when you actually have the goods. The raise isn't going anywhere, and the bettor probably isn't either. Go ahead and build yourself a pot. I'd raise sixth as well. [/ QUOTE ] I agree that the 3rd st. call is not obvious, or even +EV in and of itself (mostly of the dead 4 & 5) but playing wheel draws (with a hidden A) is actually a very strong play (as I have recently discovered in the last few months) short handed. It does wonders for your image, making it look like you are willing to draw to gut shots or just an A in the hole, as well as makes you harder to read. A gutshot and an overcard, or a small pair with an overcard can be a strong hand on 4th shorthanded and it is very well concealed. For those reasons, even without the 2 flush this is not a super hard call given the great pot and implied odds I'm getting. I would recommend folding 3rd as a way to stay out of trouble for those that aren't confindent of their play on later sts., as the this kind of marginal hand can get you into trouble when you have just one or 2 small pair later in the hand.
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