Playing Poker Stars Satellites

[JustPlayingSmart]

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My thoughts are if I have slightly more than 1000 chips near the end of the rebuy period, you can do one of two things.

1) Huck your chips in the middle and hope to double up
2) Huck an amount of chips in the middle so that I have exactly 1000 chips so that I can rebuy.

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I usually choose #1 and start going all in with every hand when there is 5min to go and I have a small stack.


Regards,
Woodguy

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Do you do this in a $11R Turbo where the top prize is only $215? If you go broke and then double rebuy twice using this strategy and then add on, you're in for $70, and it's doubtful you have more than 6000 chips at the break. Even with this stack you're probably still going to have to win at least one coin flip and maybe a 70/30 or 2, to get the seat, and the blinds may increase to 6k/12k or 10k/20k at exactly the wrong time for you.

Also, it's not like putting those extra 4k chips or whatever on your table is going to mean anything, since the tables close so quickly, and 20 minutes later 4k would be nothing anyway.

I'm not saying it's a bad idea, but intuitively, it seems like if you average putting $51 into these things, you're not going to make much money at all in them.

[woodguy]

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FWIW, I was thinking about this, and it seems like it's pretty much even $ no matter how you look at it. If you choose option 2, it costs you $10 every time. And if you choose option 1, it costs you $20 every other time (hopefully).

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Except with option #1 there is the chance to double up.

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BTW, what does your stacksize need to be, pre addon, for you not to take this types of gambools?

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I'm really fairly conservative, so I'm ok sitting $1K more than a double buying (whether that's $3K or $4K depending on the format)

But if I'm only $1K over a double buy in, easily take the worst of it for all my chips if I figure I'm a 60/40 dog.

If I have just around a double buyin or worse, I start pushing with any two.

Regards,
Woodguy

[Exitonly]

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I'll bite, why?

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yea i'm interested in this too..

so do you take the addon?

[Proofrock]

I don't mean to hijack this thread, but I've never played in a turbo rebuy satellite before. Any helpful suggestions for how to play one of these?

[pfkaok]

well. i didn't want to go through this thuroughly b/c last time i tried to do that with a mathematical example nobody seemed to even read it. but since a few people are curious on this i feel like i should at least make 1 more effort to explain my reasoning. and also, i know its dumb to play favorites, and i was accusing others of this, but since microbob was one of those asking i do feel somewhat indebted to him. lately i've been getting fed up with people here, but honestly, i have leanred tons from this site. and for the past year or two since i've been lurking, then posting, microbob has probably been the most helpful person here. and unlike others with that many posts, the vast majority of his have been constuctive, and have content. so if nothing else i hope that he at least gets something out of this post. and this is not a knock at GTR or exit. it's just a bit of praise to somebody who IMO deseveres it.

anyways, here goes. people understand that the chips change value if you have a big stack vs. a smaller stack. but most people don't realize how much an increase in blinds can affect your stacks value. this fits with how i view stack size theory, and its a big part of what i learned from gigabets tourney model.

when i was at the US poker champ. in AC i talked with paul magriel for a bit during one of the breaks. i was actually going to get a lesson from him, but the times didn't work out. anyways he was talking about him and gus hansen's book a bit, and their general ideas on tourneys. he mentioned that they think you should just keep doubling up. at the time i thought to myself "uh, yeah, i like doubling up too, who doesn't?". but after thinking about it a lot, and looking again over gigs stack sized post, and trying to clarify myslef in betgos thing, something finally clicked. the way i see the tourney now is this. to finsih in a spot that wins good $ in a big MTT (top 1%) you need to double up 6-7 times from the start. so you should strategize and find which course of action will maximize your chances to keep doubling up. early on if the table is loose then you might want to not bluff too much, but just value bet the hell out of your good and even moderate hands(depending just how loose they are). if the table's tight sometimes you can double up pretty easily by just playing super aggressive and stealing pot after pot until they fight back. and sometimes, when your stack is in the 7-10M range, its tough to double up if you have some aggressive bigger stacks than you who know how to take advantage of their bigger stacks. if this is the case, then sometimes your best chance to double up is to be cautios in that spot (b/c stealing might not have +EV if there's aggros). so sometimes you just need to wait for a big enough hand that you can profitably get allin vs. they're reraising hands. then if you don't get any good spots you'll be in good shape do double up once the blinds increase. and there are times when you should pass on +tchipEV spots b/c they will sometiems bust you and rarely give you a good shot to double. like if your M is 8, and there's normal, or unknowns in the blinds. its almost certinly +tchipEV to push with a total junk hand, like 32o. you can do the SHAL and show that i'm sure. b/c you will win the blinds very often. but winning those blinds will only increase your stack by a small%, and not help you a lot towards your goal of doubling. if you do get called you're likely in awful shape and very often will lose.

so things get interesting towards the end of the rebuy period. in a normal one i'd take the double rebuy, since the blinds are still small, and having 3000 gives you a decent, playable, higher M stack. and after the break 5k isn't great, but its still ok, and can still certainly be played profitably, and can have a chance to win. but in the turbos i don't really think the extra 1000 is going to help, since that will put you at an awkward chip level, and expectation wise i don't think you gain much from being 3500, vs. 2500(after addon) this is the part where the math gets tough, and i'm not goign to attempt it now. but i believe that the number of double ups required (usually in those its to a bit less than avg stack would be when its at the bubble) wouldn't decrease enough to make it worth the extra $10.