55: i hate jacks!! - Page 2

gildwulf · #11 11-07-2005, 04:35 AM

Is OP serious?

You check to a pre-flop raiser on a draw heavy board, he bets in position and anyone thinks about folding this? You should have donked this flop and pushed a non-scary turn. As it is, you need to check-raise here. This is a raise and it's not close.

Also, I don't really support calling with Jacks with 3 folds in front pre-flop. Because you called preflop, you know little to nothing about his hand. If you raised 3X and he reraised you pre-flop then we can consider folding to a push.

Peace,
Zach

Slim Pickens · #12 11-07-2005, 04:42 AM

[ QUOTE ]
There is some seriously questionable advice in this thread;

- If you're scared of overpairs don't play poker?
- Check fold flop?
- Check raise all-in (this lets villain play very well, although we're getting better)?

What about addressing the pf limp and the flop check?

[/ QUOTE ]

Overpair vs. overpair in a SNG is an occupational hazard. It's a very bad idea to play scared of them. Make up your mind, and if you're wrong, just start another.

You're better off folding preflop than check-folding the flop... well... that flop anyway. Really, why would you ever think of see this flop and then check-folding?

Check-raising is the ideal play since I'm putting him on probably AK or AQ. Why? You let him (over)bet for you, and now you have a chance to win a fair number of chips for nothing, or let him draw to his 4-outer for all his chips. A minraise is giving him close-to-correct implied odds to call, so don't make it close.

The preflop limp is barely OK I guess, although I think raising is way better.

bigt439 · #13 11-07-2005, 05:03 AM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
There is some seriously questionable advice in this thread;

- If you're scared of overpairs don't play poker?
- Check fold flop?
- Check raise all-in (this lets villain play very well, although we're getting better)?

What about addressing the pf limp and the flop check?

[/ QUOTE ]

Overpair vs. overpair in a SNG is an occupational hazard. It's a very bad idea to play scared of them. Make up your mind, and if you're wrong, just start another.

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree that his overbet is telling and if I got to that point a check-raise would work fine, but I hate checking that flop intially because it will often not be as clear to you what you should do.

While I understand you can't always fear the worst and operate under that assumption there is no reason we need to go broke against an overpair here in such a small pot. Why not lead the flop and make it relatively easy to find out if you're beat / take down the pot when ahead?

HesseJam · #14 11-07-2005, 05:17 AM

I don't play the 50s but at the 25s at Stars you open limping pf with JJ is suboptimal. I standard-raise pf. If someone comes big over the top pf I usually fold. And I raise the flop and vary between a cont bet and a standard raise.

TheNoodleMan · #15 11-07-2005, 05:27 AM

[ QUOTE ]
I think some people are going to call me crazy, but with no reads I fold this 100% of the time. Good luck against QQ+.

[/ QUOTE ]
You are crazy. Good luck making up for all the times villain has A7, 88-TT, AK or any hand that completely missed.
I agree with BigT that he should have raised preflop. You get a much better idea of where you are at.
This hand looks like it was played by someone who has been burned by JJ and is gunshy. The limp followed by the flop check is some very passive poker. You started with a strong hand, had a very favorable flop and you are scared. Why, because someone bet after you checked?
I strongly disagree with DPCondit about the mini raise. That does nothing to run off AK or a diamond draw, which are the 2 hands the OP should be most concerned about catching up to him.

tigerite · #16 11-07-2005, 06:19 AM

Given your position preflop, I would raise, not limp. You're good on the flop, so get the money in however you think is best.

#17 11-07-2005, 07:22 AM

thx for all the replys...very informative...btw i folded cause im a pussy....taking ball growth vitamins tho... [img]/images/graemlins/cool.gif[/img]

bigt439 · #18 11-07-2005, 11:24 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Given your position preflop, I would raise, not limp. You're good on the flop, so get the money in however you think is best.

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree that we're best alot right now, but if the money gets in I think we are best a minority of the time.

tigerite · #19 11-07-2005, 11:27 AM

On a 7-high, two-suited, minor possibility of straight draw flop? You're having a laugh, surely.

bigt439 · #20 11-07-2005, 11:31 AM

[ QUOTE ]
On a 7-high, two-suited, minor possibility of straight draw flop? You're having a laugh, surely.

[/ QUOTE ]

If the board's that dry then what gets it in against you?

EDIT: Hmmm, I'm thinking this over a bit and softening my stance somewhat. I just see no need to get stacked by QQ+ here with 75 bb's. Leading seems like a smart way to find out if your beat and get significant value out of hands you beat.