A4s slowplay? - Page 2

Aaron W. · #11 11-02-2005, 01:15 PM

I would check-raise the flop and hope button has a hand like AK and 3-bets it. He won't believe that you have a 4 because such a hand would often wait until the turn. I would cap it if 3-bet and would not slow down.

I don't like the check-raise on the turn because villain could check behind with hands like QQ and TT or Ax that you beat. This fear is what pushes me towards going nuts on the flop, because I miss out on big bets if I miss on the turn.

Why didn't you cap the turn? Also, you need to bet-call the river.

#12 11-02-2005, 01:26 PM

I cap that turn.

McGahee · #13 11-02-2005, 01:28 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I would check-raise the flop and hope button has a hand like AK and 3-bets it. He won't believe that you have a 4 because such a hand would often wait until the turn. I would cap it if 3-bet and would not slow down.

I don't like the check-raise on the turn because villain could check behind with hands like QQ and TT or Ax that you beat. This fear is what pushes me towards going nuts on the flop, because I miss out on big bets if I miss on the turn.

Why didn't you cap the turn? Also, you need to bet-call the river.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah, go nuts on the flop. His turn 3-bet does concern me a little though because hero is telling him he has trips and he doesn't seem to care. I would call the 3-bet and bet/call the river. I don't know if that makes any sense, but 5 BB's between the turn & river sounds about right. I don't think you're ever good when you cap the turn and get raised on the river.

#14 11-02-2005, 01:37 PM

I think I would raise the flop. Your hand is strong enough to slowplay, but the important question is will it make you more money than the one BB you are passing up on the flop. Will button bet the turn? Will MP2 call even one bet on the turn?

As played I'm not so sure about the turn river. Villian seems non-retarded so he has to know you have a 4. Though I am always suprised how bad even people with decent stats play. So i'm not reallys ure.

bozlax · #15 11-02-2005, 02:11 PM

Just for clarification, Nick, on the flop you're behind 2 hands. K4 is unlikely, but it exists. On the Turn you're behind KK/JJ/K4/J4 and on the river you're behind KK/JJ/77/K4/J4/74/x[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]x[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].

I prefer to go nuts on the flop with low trips (as opposed to a low set). You've got the one likely dead-money hand (MP2) trapped, the pot is worth fighting for now, and I don't count on Button continuation-betting anything on the turn that doesn't improve his hand (even AA will sometimes get scared on a paired board). If I just called the flop, I would lead/3-bet the turn, and call a cap. If the turn is capped, I'll check/call the river.

The way you played the flop, I cap the turn. He might think you're on a heart draw, he might think the J paired your ace's kicker so his AA/AK is still good, etc. Then bet/call the river.

Buckmulligan · #16 11-02-2005, 02:20 PM

It's ridiculous how much equity you forfeited on the flop and turn. You give up a lot by not check raising the flop, and a WHOLE lot by checkraising the turn. If button checks behind on the turn, you lose 2-3 bets.

#17 11-02-2005, 03:48 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Why didn't you cap the turn? Also, you need to bet-call the river.

[/ QUOTE ]

His 3 bet really concerned me. He was a solid player and my c/r on the turn looks like slowplayed 4 (I think).

I bet call the river only to find out that I was dead to KK from the beginning. Just one of those hands. I was having a really bad run of cards that day and getting pretty pessimistic. I had about 5-6 other hands like this one and was just spewing big bets. I think thats why I didn't cap the turn. That and I just felt like he was really strong. I really thought he had JJ or KK. Unfortunately I was right.

milesdyson · #18 11-02-2005, 03:56 PM

don't be inconsistent street-to-street. if you chose not to cap the turn because you felt he had KK/JJ, then you should check the river. it didn't change your hand at all, so why would you stop and go?

TomBrooks · #19 11-02-2005, 04:34 PM

FLOP:

I don't thinnk this is a slowplay hand. You slowplay a hand when the pot is small and when you have the near mortal nuts and you want to let someone else improve to make a second best hand. Your hand is very vulnerable.

I think the best thing may be to bet into the Button who raised preflop. Maybe if the Button raises you can knock some people out who have a pocket pair. If another of their card comes in they make a boat. Anyone who has a King is staying in and if another King comes your're drawing to one out. If raised on the flop, reraise and if capped by Button, consider that he might have KK and be winning. You might as well find this out on the cheap streets if you can.

PS: You also want to knock out or charge any same suit card holders that might be thinking about staying in. The pot is already pretty big and you probably won't knock everyone out right away anyway - try to win it.

RIVER: I check/call fearing KK from the Button. The third heart speaks adds to the argument against a bet, although it's not very likely someone made a flush.

Aaron W. · #20 11-02-2005, 06:24 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I would check-raise the flop and hope button has a hand like AK and 3-bets it. He won't believe that you have a 4 because such a hand would often wait until the turn. I would cap it if 3-bet and would not slow down.

I don't like the check-raise on the turn because villain could check behind with hands like QQ and TT or Ax that you beat. This fear is what pushes me towards going nuts on the flop, because I miss out on big bets if I miss on the turn.

Why didn't you cap the turn? Also, you need to bet-call the river.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah, go nuts on the flop. His turn 3-bet does concern me a little though because hero is telling him he has trips and he doesn't seem to care. I would call the 3-bet and bet/call the river. I don't know if that makes any sense, but 5 BB's between the turn & river sounds about right. I don't think you're ever good when you cap the turn and get raised on the river.

[/ QUOTE ]

You're right that 5 BB doesn't seem to make much sense. If you get raised on the river, the likelihood of you losing is the same whether there were three or four bets on the turn. So you're really asking yourself how good you think your hand is on the turn. If you don't think your hand is good on the turn (not capping), check-call the river.

By the way, my wording was a little too strong in the quote at the top. If you cap the flop and he raises you on the turn, you need to consider only calling. What I had meant to convey was that after capping the flop, you must lead again on the turn.