Lots of checking.

[TStoneMBD]

i also dont like betting the flop too much. i dont have much reasoning for that but my gut instinct is that a flop bet isnt very good. the best logical reasoning i can come up with is that a bet ties you to the pot when you are called because you dont know if they have a club or a pair.

i think those who are saying bet the turn are wrong. you have no folding equity, there is virtually no such thing as a weaker club, a Q or J shouldnt be out there and a K might fold. if noone has a higher club they are drawing dead unless they have 2 pair of course. id check and let someone else bet it.

after the river comes i dont see value in a bet. id much rather let someone else bet it for me and call.

well played.

[Lmn55d]

I think flop and turn are good. I would bet the river however because I think you will get calls by someone hoping to chop more than you will by a better hand. People don't like to give up even a portion of the pot. The guy acting behind might also might not raise a lot of better flushes that he would be anyway. They're gonna think "we're all gonna split and this bozo is trying to make a steal" and call with crap.

[surfdoc]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Raise preflop. Rest of the hand plays itself then.


[/ QUOTE ]

I much prefer betting nearly any flop than raising pf.

Also, I think it is an important hand - our mistakes cost us the most in small pots.

Surf

[/ QUOTE ]

I think these types of hands are important too and that is why I posted it. I think that preflop is very debatable and I could be convinced a raise is best. I think 88 is a clear raise and the cutoff lies at either 66 or 77. I like the pot small too as you describe and will bet out on most raggy flops and try to take it down. With this flop I think I can check fold. Is that too weak?

The turn is the only street that I am convinced was played correctly. There is basically no good reason to bet here. This is straight out of one of the books. There is absolutely no free card risk and I almost always take the pot down without further profit if neither has a club or lose 2 BB if the player behind me does. Checking the turn can only help in that maybe one of these guys spikes a pair and or makes trips on the river and pays me off.

The river is where my multitabling brain fart came in. This is an easy bet and bad players will often call and even overcall tying to chop back their small bet they put in preflop. When the turn gets checked through I tried to induce a bluff on the river which worked but was not the correct play.

As far as the issue of if an overcall on the river is correct I think the answer in this game is absolutely. I call here every time and fully expect to get pushed the pot. These players just don't let the flop get checked through with a good club and the turn checked through with any club.

[Surfbullet]

Hey Surfdoc,

I think the turn could go either way. If these guys are "party-bad" then I don't see a K folding the turn, like, ever. Sometimes you'll even get a chaser with just a T. Sb checked the turn after the flop checked through so we're confident we're ahead of him...that leaves just MP behind us - and he's going to bet most good clubs on the flop(as you said) so I'd usually bet here and hope one of them has a K or a Q or a J and pays me off.

The other side to this is that there are effectively no cards in the deck that hurt you...if you've got the best hand now, it's going to stay the best hand. This makes inducing a bluff much more appealing theoretically (since the downside that you forfeit some of your equity is gone) but party 5/10 players aren't really renowned for their bluffs, more for their retarded calls...at the 10/20 and up i'd like a check-call approach because the LAGtards there bet too much. Party 5/10 donkeys call too much - bet and let them do what they do best.

Surf

[surfdoc]

[ QUOTE ]
I think the turn could go either way. If these guys are "party-bad" then I don't see a K folding the turn, like, ever.

[/ QUOTE ]

Even "party-bad" players don't check top pair on a monotone board.

Think about the turn a bit more. I will try to find the exact book and page number where this is discussed when my kids stop crawling on me.

Edit: I just realized the K was the turn card so ignore the above.

[TStoneMBD]

i thought about it some more and you guys are right. betting the river is better.