Good Fold or bad?

[RockLobster]

Hi Scott--

I would have folded as well... only my fold would have been the "pre-flop" variety. I'm VERY picky about playing KTo & KJo, and this hand didn't meet those strict standards.

I guess I'm mostly likely to play those hands when I can open-raise from LP or if I can raise to isolate a loosie-goosie. I'll also sometimes limp in LP or better in a passive family pot, but I don't know if this is +EV in the long run.

Take care!

[oddjob]

allright, since everyone else is saying they'd fold... and even fold preflop!!!!!??!! i'm going to play devil's advocate.

i find it hard to believe that some of you would fold this preflop, when you hold this on the button and it's limped to you. bernie even stated he doesn't play this in his sb sometimes. does anyone else find this astonishing?

the raiser could easily be raising the flush draw. i think if it's early at the table, this could be a good time to make a play and find out what he's willing to raise with.

a 3-bet can knock out the original better.

the K on the turn makes it more unlikely that he has the other king, and more likely he's on the diamond draw.

not absolute... just a different point of view.

[SoBeDude]

I'll also sometimes limp in LP or better in a passive family pot, but I don't know if this is +EV in the long run.

Well I'm on the button. and it is a passive family pot...

So I think you contradicted yourself. [img]/forums/images/icons/wink.gif[/img]

I think I should have 3-bet, but I think the fold was good too.

-Scott

[SoBeDude]

If I had still been in on the turn I would have bet/raised for sure.

Not only because I may have the best hand, but the odds of a split pot go up as well (potentially eliminating the impact of a bad kicker).

-scott

[lil']

A while back I made a post asking what to do with K-10o with one early limper. The general consensus was that if there is more than one limper, the hand isn't that great to play.

Your fold was good, BTW, IMHO.

[RockLobster]

Hi Scott--

Well I'm on the button. and it is a passive family pot...

Well there were 3 callers (I thought 2), so I guess that's close enough [img]/forums/images/icons/smile.gif[/img]... but my default play is to find a reason to fold KTo or KJo.

Either way, once you saw the flop I think the fold was a good one.

[Bob T.]

Here is a tactically similar situation in my mind, you have KT suited on the cutoff, one limper to you. In this case, you are usually going to raise. On the other hand, if it is openraised in midposition, and folded to you, you have KT suited, you probably fold. Either way, you are going to play the hand 2 or 3 handed for two bets, but in one situation, you are happy to play, and in the other you aren't.

With KT off, I would probably limp on the button with this hand in a family pot. I would limp with hands a lot worse than this for sure, but when it is bet and raised in front of you, I think you are faced with a bad situation, If one player bets, and then it is folded to you, then I would be raising with this hand, but once someone else makes the raise, then it makes drawing real thin a high probability with this hand, and it is time to get away from it.

I think that the king on the turn probably just made you think that it was less likely that your opponent had a king, but if he did, he could have had a better kicker, and if he didn't, he might have had a set, and just made full house.

I think that you can play hands like this in late position for a single bet, if you can figure out when to get away from them, and when to attack with them after the flop. Otherwise they get real costly.

In your example, you have a bet and a raise in front of you , with two players who might have you beat, and if you are behind, you don't have a significant number of outs, especially when you consider that the pot is still fairly small.

[SoBeDude]

Hi bob,

Thanks for explaining your thinking process. It is happily similar to mine.

Perhaps there is hope for me after all. [img]/forums/images/icons/crazy.gif[/img]

-Scott

[bernie]

i may actually be giving up a little by not completing with this hand in the SB. 1/3 bet for completion i would.

i just hate KTo.

how many flops can you really like with this hand that you cant be redrawn on easily. not many. 2 pair is about what your hoping for. or a monotone board with your king as that suit. or an openended str8 draw. thats about it.

if you flop a pair, you cant really like it.

i like KJ much, much better. it plays much easier too

b