Horrible play and an expensive reminder

[DonHansen]

You make the first mistake when you just call the all-in from the middle player. Never just call an all-in when there's a live player behind you - raise significantly to shut him out in order to get the all-in raiser heads up. If the initial raiser call your raise you're up against a premium hand and have to procede with real care.

You make the second mistake when you call UTGs bet on the flop. The bet is suspicously on the low side and gives you great odds (almost 4-1) so it looks like he wants you to call. He probably hit the flop with TT or JJ or holds QQ, KK, AA or maybe AK. In every case you're drawing dead. So fold.

My two cents.


D.

[twang]

[ QUOTE ]
You make the first mistake when you just call the all-in from the middle player. Never just call an all-in when there's a live player behind you - raise significantly to shut him out in order to get the all-in raiser heads up. If the initial raiser call your raise you're up against a premium hand and have to procede with real care.

[/ QUOTE ]
Yeah, that was the other (third) obvious mistake I was referring to in my initial post. Man, I really trashed that hand.

[zambonidrivr]

your preflop action here is embarassing. learn how to play gap and you won't be posting these dumb comments.

[DonHansen]

Oh, come on! The guy is asking for advice - which is what the forums are for. No need to make him feel stupid.

Twang: The gap-concept was introduced by David Sklansky in "The Theory of Poker" and states that you need a better hand to call (or raise) an opened pot than you need to open a pot. In this situation with a raised and reraised pot your AQs is a borderline hand. Against strong players at a tight table it's almost a mandatory fold behind a raise and reraise - unless your postflop play is top notch.

The gap-concept is also well explained in Dan Harringtons brilliant book "Harrington On Hold'em vol I."


D.

[twang]

Hey Don, no need to defend my case, but thanks anyway.

Actually, the main reason for posting that awful hand was that it was fine illustration of neglection of a couple of basic NL-concepts: the gamble with my big stack and TPTK on a drawy board + aggression; not looking at your opponents possible range of hands; not reraising the all-in. And while I'm at it: not applying the gap concept. I'm very well aware of what gap means, but I (obviously) didn't apply it in this hand.

Well, these boards are for learning and the intention of my post was to show off a butchered hand for (not exclusively my own) learning purposes.

[DonHansen]

[ QUOTE ]
Hey Don, no need to defend my case, but thanks anyway.



[/ QUOTE ]

I just think badmouthing other players - at the table or in the forums - is a sad approach. Be friendly and be nice. Being online doesn’t give anyone a free card to be rude, and mouthing off to bad beaters is totally uncalled for. The riverplayer is your best friend. For every time he hit’s his 4-outer there’s 10.5 times he doesn’t - chips in your pot. So when your set of cowboys is beaten by an inside straight, just tip your hat and say “nice hand”. Those who catch the irony are the ones you should worry about.


D.

[sunek]

Hi

It is a very interesting hand which is played really bad as you and the other posters points out. However learning from your own and others mistakes is what can make you a great player one day. I guess most players makes errors like that form time to time - I know I do [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]. So thank you for sharing this hand with us - it takes a lot more courage to tell about bad play than clever play, which make a hand like yours more interesting i my opinion.

Regards

sunek

[ansky451]

PF I dont mind the call, but I'd rather be in a heads up pot and push to isolate. On the flop... fold. Gutshot with the 2 diamonds up is baaaaad.

[JustPlayingSmart]

I think everything is fine up until the flop call. This is a terrible flop for you. The only card that is good on the turn is a king, though an ace is probably a decent card. On the turn, when the Q comes, you beat no legitimate hands. TT-AA, AK all have you beat badly.

If I played the hand I would probably repop it to about 6,000 preflop. Then if UTG came over the top I'd have a decision to make. You'd be getting 2-1 to call, so I'd probably call anyway, but I definitely wouldn't like it.

AQ is just a terrible hand against a pf raise in so many ways. I don't call raises with it and I don't even raise with it, unless I am in SB/BB and no one has shown strength pf.

Against a pf raise, suppose you call with with AQ. Flop is 9,Q,7 or K,Q,T or K,6,Q. UTG raises. What do you do? See what I mean? It's just a problem hand.