oh thou pocket dueces, how i love thee - Page 2

Subfallen · #11 10-26-2005, 01:07 PM

Haha TStone, I'm going to have to stop reading these low PP threads. Last night an average UTG raised, I cold-called (!) 55 on the button and a horrible BB called one more.

Flop: 3[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]
BB checks, UTG bets, I raise, BB calls two cold, UTG thinks and calls

Turn: 7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]
BB checks, UTG checks, I bet, BB calls, UTG folds

River: 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]
BB bets, I call...he has A3o and MHIG.

[img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

#12 10-26-2005, 01:17 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I think we have to consider limping behind the poster here.

[/ QUOTE ]

Terrible.

#13 10-26-2005, 01:18 PM

Rory, While I agree that small pairs suck (regardless of the position you hold), dont you think the presence of a poster and a semi-tight BB means he should raise this preflop?

rory · #14 10-26-2005, 01:33 PM

i dunno. either the BB or poster is going to call preflop, since they are priced in with almost any two cards so stealing the blinds will be impossible. and people who are otherwise fairly tight love to defend their blinds. i think the hand doesn't wind up HU most of the time and then the times it is HU you have to dodge the flop or dodge getting outplayed. its really hard to play little pairs correctly unimproved postflop if your opponents are aggressive even with position and even if it is heads up. i've been folding 22 and 33 when it is folded to me on the button and the blinds are loose and aggressive and i feel pretty happy about it. maybe im feeling differently about those little pairs because im playing in tougher full-ring games lately. for the record i have run through the range of ways to play on the button, from insanely loose to pretty tight. this is just where i am at right now and what im thinking about, i really am not tied down to what i think though it takes some bickering to budge me. most of hush plays a lot better than me, i just have my game i tinker with and i think it is a lot different than what the general consensus is here. for what its worth im feeling like my game is becoming a lot simpler.

TStoneMBD · #15 10-26-2005, 01:46 PM

i agree that small pairs on the button arent very good at all when you dont have a chance to take down the blinds. you are in a very sizeable reverse implied odd situation, so i normally fold 22 on the button. with a CO poster though whos checked he rarely has anything and will often fold to the raise. i think there is alot of preflop equity to be gained with a raise but i really am not sure which is why i posted this hand. postflop is fairly terrible i know that, this thread was more of a preflop question.

TStoneMBD · #16 10-26-2005, 01:47 PM

i dont know why you played this way sub. i think you played this hand terribly. if youre going to play 55 there you need to 3bet, but i would certainly advise folding.

after youve raised the flop which i really dont think i like and the BB calls 2, you should be checking the turn and folding to a river bet. i think the fact that you won this hand is an anomaly.

Victor · #17 10-26-2005, 01:52 PM

wow. i hope you hit a 2 on the turn.

Lash · #18 10-26-2005, 02:03 PM

I routinely fold when led into on the flop here. I think raising here screams of a raise made only on principle (raw aggression), not on the reality of the situation. The reality being… he 3 bet from the bb, and your hand sucks.

If you are ahead on the flop your hand still sucks. He’s not going anywhere (at least not on the flop) and you have no clue where you stand as the action progresses.

If you are behind, your hand sucks even more. You are going to have to commit a lot of chips to force him into mistakes such as folding a winner, or giving you a free showdown etc.

rory · #19 10-26-2005, 02:03 PM

you basically have no chance of stealing the blinds because the CO shouldn't fold almost any hand because he is getting 3:1 on his money. but you get extra leeway postflop because if you do get it heads up, you have 1 SB of equity in the pot from either the BB or cutoff who folded which is giving you an overlay in case you get outplayed postflop. i think it is a pretty close decision, just like open raising 22 or 33 from the button. my main concern is that people defend their blinds (or posts) so much that often this situation winds up being a 3-way pot instead of HU. also if the BB is going to play he should probably 3-bet (which he did) to get the dead money from the poster in there. i dont know it just doesnt seem like a great situation to me but maybe i am just being a pansy.

TStoneMBD · #20 10-26-2005, 02:06 PM

im not justifying my play, but i think its closer than alot of people think.

i think alot of people are giving the BB alot of credit for a big hand, but in reality i see it as him 3betting a button raiser who is isolating a poster and his 3bet is trying to eliminate the poster to increase his equity.

i think any Ax would be capable of this so i think there is a strong chance im ahead. however, with KQ on the flop that is just too many cards that he could have. if if the flop was K53 then i like my raise.