This hand is a mess. - Page 2

hobbsmann · #11 10-25-2005, 09:59 PM

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What do you do if you don't flush on the river?

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fold. Unless of course I hit a Q.

Nick C · #12 10-25-2005, 10:37 PM

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Plan?

Party Poker 15.00/30.00 Hold'em (10 handed) link

Preflop: Hero is MP1 with Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
1 folds, UTG+1 calls, 1 folds, Hero raises, MP2 calls, 1 folds, CO calls, Button 3-bets, SB calls, 1 folds, UTG+1 calls, Hero caps, MP2 calls, CO is all-in ($30.00), Button calls, SB calls, UTG+1 calls.

Flop: (25.00 SB) 6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 2[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (6 players, 1 all-in)
SB checks, UTG+1 checks, Hero.

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I guess I'd bet, mainly in an effort to avoid being bluffed by two other players with worse pocket pairs.

But it's hard for me to imagine you're ahead here very often at all.

And after you bet and get called in a few spots (and you will get called, if you don't get raised), what the hell do you do on the turn?

Bet again, I guess, but this certainly isn't a hand I'd be enjoying.

W. Deranged · #13 10-25-2005, 10:52 PM

Hobbs,

This is pretty interesting. It's really complicated by the fact that your position is horrible. Being sandwiched between the four players is bad, particularly with an aggressor still left to act behind you. I think there's a lot to be said for checking since you're kind of WA/WB, but you'd love anyone with an A to fold here, and even lower pocket pairs are getting odds to continue. The main deterrent from betting here is that you have to call a raise, but, honestly, in a 25 SB pot when we're only talking about small bets, I think 2 bets is hardly an overwhelming price to pay for possible protection, avoiding getting bluffed off a hand, occassionally getting calls from worse hands when you're ahead, and so on and so forth. Checking opens yourself up to getting blown off the hand not just here but on later streets.

So I think you should probably bet and reevaluate. There's no way to suggest all possible turn plans, but you almost certainly will be seeing the turn unless it's two cold back to you. I'd plan on probably checking the turn the majority of the time.

hobbsmann · #14 10-25-2005, 11:18 PM

So for the 1st hand I did what most suggested. I bet, button raised, various people called, I called and then check/folded a blank turn.

jskills · #15 10-25-2005, 11:29 PM

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is there is anything wrong with check/calling?

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Given the recent hand I posted with TT vs a Q on the flop, I think not. There are no draws to protect against. You're WA/WB.

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I could agree with this one. It's a good path to take against a good player for sure.

I am wondering without reads, the range of hands the button will 3-bet with could be pretty wide. Let's take this range of hands AA-99,AK,AQ,AQs,AJs,KQs. I was goofing around with Pokerstove and the QQ has 58.77% of equity preflop vs this range. After the flop, it still has 54.1%, so maybe we can bet / call the flop and take it from there? My logic could be off ...

otis_nixon · #16 10-26-2005, 12:13 AM

one line i think would have to check and hope the blinds go away, and then I would probably get to showdown

another is you could check raise him that is depending on the play of the blinds, and if you get three bet you know where your at for sure then. this would be my line