The Biggest Miracle

[txag007]

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Is what you are quoting written by Paul?

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Yes. Paul wrote the majority of the New Testament. What I quoted was chapter 15 of First Corinthians. Both First and Second Corinthians are letters of encouragement Paul wrote to the church at Corinth. And yes, as I quoted, Paul does in fact mention the resurrection. As for his writings pre-dating the Gospel accounts, I think you are correct on that. I'd have to look it up to be sure.

there's no way that paul could have missed talking about the ressurection, as it was the "ressurected lord" that came to him on the road to..was it damascus?

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It is my understanding that Paul,who wrote earlier than the others, didn't say anything about the resurrection. Is that not correct?

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txag007 is right, Paul actually mentions Jesus's death & resurrection in several epistles that he wrote. However, the ironic thing, actually, is that Paul never speaks about anything else in relation to the historic Jesus. No sermons Jesus preached, no miracles he performed, no parables he taught. Even though Paul spent time with Peter & James (both disciples/apostles of Jesus, who were there for all of those things), Paul does not mention those things in his letters. Can you imagine a missionary to Africa not telling the people about Jesus: his virgin birth, his "Sermon on the Mount", the miracles he performed, and the parables he taught? Paul was a missionary, yet never spoke of any of these things.

(And yes, the Epistles pre-date the Gospels.)

[slavic]

David -

I can answer your question on the miracle of Manna from Heaven. Of course I'm sure a genuine skeptic as yourself will not like the answer but oh well.

The western sources for this are:

Breitenbach, Dean of Mainz 1483
G Ehrenberg, German born Botanist 1823
Friedrich Simon Bodenheimer and Oskar Theodor (botanist)1923

"manna is .. a secretion exuded by tamarisk trees and bushes when they are pierced by a certain type of plant-louse which is found in the Sinai."

"Without the plant-louse mentioned first by Ehrenberg there would in fact be no manna at all. These little insects live primarily on tamarisks which are a type of tree indigenous to Sinai. They exude a peculiar resinous secretion, which according to Bodenheimer is about the same shape and size as a coriander seed. When it falls to the ground it is white in colour, but after lying for some time becomes yellowish-brown."

"The taste of these crystallised grains of manna is peculiarly sweet. It is most of all like honey when it has been left for a long time to solidify."

Apparently the Bedouins of the 1920's still collected the stuff daily. With the average person being able to collect around 4 pounds of it before it disappears around 8:30 ish in the morning. After that the ants have pretty much gotten to it, and you get to wait for the next morning.

-Dan

[slavic]

Oh and since you now believe in religion, have you given any thought to taking hold of one of hte major religions. I'm particularly fond of mine but there are several that would be happy to have you.

[RJT]

[ QUOTE ]
txag007 is right, Paul actually mentions Jesus's death & resurrection in several epistles that he wrote. However, the ironic thing, actually, is that Paul never speaks about anything else in relation to the historic Jesus. No sermons Jesus preached, no miracles he performed, no parables he taught. Even though Paul spent time with Peter & James (both disciples/apostles of Jesus, who were there for all of those things), Paul does not mention those things in his letters. Can you imagine a missionary to Africa not telling the people about Jesus: his virgin birth, his "Sermon on the Mount", the miracles he performed, and the parables he taught? Paul was a missionary, yet never spoke of any of these things.

(And yes, the Epistles pre-date the Gospels.)

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Kip,

Paul was not an eye witness to Jesus during Jesus’ temporal time. I do not find it surprising that he does not speak of things he did not witness. Makes him all the more unique.

RJT

[RJT]

David,

I don’t really understand your point. Why the manna thing is the litmus test (as opposed to any random "miracle" )?

But, regarding this peripheral point: “The miracle I have in mind is not the resurrection of Jesus in spite of the impact it had. Because the event itself is not nearly as earth shattering scientifically speaking. Maybe there was a medical explanation.”

It is not earth shattering if it did not occur - if there is a medical explanation like your example. If it did occur, how is that not “earth shattering”?

RJT

[txag007]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
It is my understanding that Paul,who wrote earlier than the others, didn't say anything about the resurrection. Is that not correct?

[/ QUOTE ]

txag007 is right, Paul actually mentions Jesus's death & resurrection in several epistles that he wrote. However, the ironic thing, actually, is that Paul never speaks about anything else in relation to the historic Jesus. No sermons Jesus preached, no miracles he performed, no parables he taught. Even though Paul spent time with Peter & James (both disciples/apostles of Jesus, who were there for all of those things), Paul does not mention those things in his letters. Can you imagine a missionary to Africa not telling the people about Jesus: his virgin birth, his "Sermon on the Mount", the miracles he performed, and the parables he taught? Paul was a missionary, yet never spoke of any of these things.

(And yes, the Epistles pre-date the Gospels.)

[/ QUOTE ]

Put it in context, kids. To do that, you must understand who Paul really was: a missionary who would travel from town to town starting churches. The letters of his that make up a good portion of the New Testament is what he wrote back to these same churches to encourage them and instruct them about Christian doctrine. He didn't have to cover the basics about who Jesus was because his audience already knew.

[carlo]

Manna should be considered as knowledge which is food for the soul. This type of understanding comes about by thoughtful entry into the supersensible world for which the ancient Hebrews were to receive and therefore continue on their sacred mission.

A similar episode is the breaking of bread by Christ Jesus and the feeding of the five thousand. To feed five thousand people with 5 loafs and 2 fishes or physical"manna" would be black magic but the entry into the spiritual realities involved was the Christ bringing the five thousand into a region of the spiritual world and likewise the work of Moses.

The consciousness of the ancient world was not like our present consciousness and to assume mankind was always as we are presently is specious reasoning. Many things written in the Bible "to go over to the other side', "unto the mountain" , "the sea" are not literal in physicality but absolutely true in that perceptive time.

As an example, the "sea" is the esoteric expression for the cosmos as opposed to the "earth" which of course is related to our planetary experience.

The Bible is truly an occult(hidden) book and will be finally understood when the angel who places one foot on the "earth" and one foot on the "sea" and states "let there be time no more" comes to fruition(Revelation of John).



carlo

[David Sklansky]

"It is not earth shattering if it did not occur - if there is a medical explanation like your example. If it did occur, how is that not “earth shattering”?

RJT

It would be. I didn't make myself clear I guess.