Tipping Story

[Rick Nebiolo]

My actions in this story were inspired by the Dealers most hated and stiff report in the News,Views & Gossip Forum. I now realize my thinking was way off.

If a regular opponent, when going all-in, routinely pushes his playable odd chips in the pot when he’s strong and holds them back when he’s weak then it’s idiotic that I’d want the dealer to "do his job” and ask my opponent for his chips. My opponent just might stop giving me this cheap information.

We shouldn’t want casino’s to have a policy where dealer’s call string bets (sometimes taking away action we want) and we shouldn’t want dealers to take away this tell.

I think I’ll go back and tip the original dealer. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

~ Rick

[andyfox]

I also see this all the time: with what they think is a winning hand, an all-in player will use their small denomination chips to get as much into the pot as possible; with what they think might not win, they won't. I've never seen any dealer force the player to put in the small denomination chips.

Really, I can't blame the dealers. The all-in player is usually not in a mood to be nudged about a few dollars. And in my game (Commerce 40-80) there are a lot of different chips ($5, $3, $1, and sometimes $2) so the all-in player might have a rainbow of chips that could be $10 or it could be $9. And there are some players who honestly don't know that the smaller chips play.

Glad to hear you explained yourself to the dealer. Not that I imagined you'd do anything but that.

Regards,
Andy

[andyfox]

I disagree. The dealer's job is to make sure the game is fair for all players. The reason for any of us to agree or disagree with the dealer not doing his or her job should have nothing to do with the fact that it might give us a tell. A dealer not wanting to be nitty with a player who's hot and stuck is understandable. A player not wanting a dealer to do the right thing is not.

Suppose a player had a hundred dollar bill underneath his rack. We've all seen this angle lots of times. If the dealer knows it, would you not want the dealer to say anthing? What about a player who says he's playing behind. If his opponent doesn't know or remember that, shouldn't the dealer speak up?

[Rick Nebiolo]

[ QUOTE ]
I also see this all the time: with what they think is a winning hand, an all-in player will use their small denomination chips to get as much into the pot as possible; with what they think might not win, they won't. I've never seen any dealer force the player to put in the small denomination chips.

Really, I can't blame the dealers. The all-in player is usually not in a mood to be nudged about a few dollars. And in my game (Commerce 40-80) there are a lot of different chips ($5, $3, $1, and sometimes $2) so the all-in player might have a rainbow of chips that could be $10 or it could be $9. And there are some players who honestly don't know that the smaller chips play.

Glad to hear you explained yourself to the dealer. Not that I imagined you'd do anything but that.

Regards,
Andy

[/ QUOTE ]

Some days I have to fight to control my inner nit. The player in "Tipping Story" is a bit aggravating though. Today, TWO HANDS after he folded out of turn with no action in a four way pot, he admonished another player for doing EXACTLY THE SAME THING when he had a shot at the pot with a weak hand! I kept my mouth shut. [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

~ Rick

[worm33]

[ QUOTE ]
I also see this all the time: with what they think is a winning hand, an all-in player will use their small denomination chips to get as much into the pot as possible; with what they think might not win, they won't. I've never seen any dealer force the player to put in the small denomination chips.

Really, I can't blame the dealers. The all-in player is usually not in a mood to be nudged about a few dollars. And in my game (Commerce 40-80) there are a lot of different chips ($5, $3, $1, and sometimes $2) so the all-in player might have a rainbow of chips that could be $10 or it could be $9. And there are some players who honestly don't know that the smaller chips play.

Glad to hear you explained yourself to the dealer. Not that I imagined you'd do anything but that.

Regards,
Andy

[/ QUOTE ]


I can't believe you have never seen a dealer force a player to put in his small denomination chips. In my game (canterbury 30-60) I have never not seen a player forced to put in his last $.

[Rick Nebiolo]

[ QUOTE ]
I disagree. The dealer's job is to make sure the game is fair for all players. The reason for any of us to agree or disagree with the dealer not doing his or her job should have nothing to do with the fact that it might give us a tell. A dealer not wanting to be nitty with a player who's hot and stuck is understandable. A player not wanting a dealer to do the right thing is not.

[/ QUOTE ]

Andy, I'm confused. In your other post you wrote that dealers typically don't insist that the last few odd chips go in the pot. In retrospect, I realize this is OK, all things considered. And be not doing so the dealer is "doing his job", in the best sense of the word (i.e. keeping the game running smoothly).


[ QUOTE ]
Suppose a player had a hundred dollar bill underneath his rack. We've all seen this angle lots of times. If the dealer knows it, would you not want the dealer to say anything? What about a player who says he's playing behind. If his opponent doesn't know or remember that, shouldn't the dealer speak up?

[/ QUOTE ]

Of course on both counts. But these violations cost a lot of money or really have an impact on the game, rather than making sure one player gets the last few chips.

The whole point about the tell was to illustrate my failure to think things through (the kind of mistake Tommy would never make, maybe you can help pay my tuition [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]).

~ Rick

PS Check out tonights Live at Bike at the www.bike.com. It has thirty minutes left and it's a good action NL game with deep stacks. No 2+2ers though.

PPS One thing nice about having two monitors is that I can type this while we (gf and I) watch the show on the other screen.

PPPS I won't be able to get back until tommorow (or late tonight). We plan to catch Cool Hand Luke on DVD. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

[Rick Nebiolo]

[ QUOTE ]
I can't believe you have never seen a dealer force a player to put in his small denomination chips. In my game (canterbury 30-60) I have never not seen a player forced to put in his last $.

[/ QUOTE ]

Andy and I play in LA.

~ Rick

PS And sometimes dealers do have the player put the money in. [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

[andyfox]

What we have here is a failure to communicate.

(sorry, couldn't resist)

We shouldn't decide on whether or not to tell a dealer to do the right thing based on whether what the dealer didn't do gives us a tell. That's all I'm saying.

Meanwhile . . .

Up a buck.

[andyfox]

Like I say, I've never seen it. I've seen players point it out, but never the dealer. My guess is half of them don't know the rule.

[bigfishead]

[ QUOTE ]
Like I say, I've never seen it. I've seen players point it out, but never the dealer. My guess is half of them don't know the rule.

[/ QUOTE ]

Really? I do all the time. "All your $1 chips sir...increments of five play"

What about this: 10-20 game, utg bets 10, short stack calls, you call, MP raises to $20 total, utg calls $20, shorty has $10 more in redbirds and $5 in whites and says all-in before he lazily tosses in the redbirds.

But wait! the $5 whites play, he has declared all-in prior to his bet, so using the 1/2 bet rule he has now RE-OPENED the betting when a good dealer mentions the above, "Bet is $35" And YOUR next to act! This has opened up a new scenario! And it's very important, and your next to act.

Even in NL this can happen with say a limp-reraise all-in from from shorty. And he's barely covered the full bet rule there and it's just a frustration all-in. But your next to act and the betting has been re-opened with a raiser behind you! Or maybe shorty is behind you and you see out of his frustration he's going to go all-in. Yet if the $1 chips are held back the betting WONT be reopened, but if they do get put into the pot per the dealer, the betting WILL be reopened with a raiser behind shorty still. Now what?

Knowing the staff and how they will handle it suddenly makes a huge difference in how you continue with this hand. Consistency.