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#11
10-21-2005, 02:10 PM
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Re: T8s in front of a rock
If this guy really is a rock, and not just an extreme TAG, then he checked the turn because he's afraid his overpair is no good and he's looking for a cheap showdown. I would not bet this river because I don't think there is much to be gained. I think you are either behind, or are making a bet that won't get called. Obviously he's not folding a better hand either.
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#12
10-21-2005, 02:26 PM
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Re: T8s in front of a rock
To continue...
Mp1 limps, I overlimp w/T [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]8 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], CO raises, all fold to Mp1 who calls as do I 8 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]7 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]3 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] MP1 checks, I bet, Rock raises, MP1 folds, I 3bet, Rock caps, I call 2 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] I check, Rock checks?! 6 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] I check, he checks and shows the not-unexpected AKo Question: How well or poorly was this hand played by Hero and Villain? It is interesting (at least to me) to note that I think villain probably felt that he played the hand well... after all he got to showdown without having to put in a bet on the turn or river. I, similarly, felt fine with extracting 4sb on the flop and then showing this hand down without having to submit myself to a nasty turn or river raise which, taken at face value, ought mean that I wad drawing to 2 outs at best. Who made out better in the metagame aspect, here, or was it a push?
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#13
10-21-2005, 02:26 PM
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Re: T8s in front of a rock
I think this hand is over-played. If I find myself doing these things, I try to have the where-with-all to sit back take a deep breath and ask myself if I need to outplay my opponents with expensive plays to beat the game.
3-betting the flop is just bad in my opinion - weak player or no. You're just charging yourself when they won't fold often enough for the given price against the pot for the play. The river is now a compounded errors problem. You can feel reasonably certain you're beat, but your mistake on the flop now provides a pot that lays you 8-1 on your call if he bets. No way is leading the river good poker imo. - Jim
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#15
10-21-2005, 02:34 PM
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Re: T8s in front of a rock
Technically speaking, villian's play is not horrid here (although i'm not sure that it's optimal).
From villian's point of view. He raises the flop to get rid of MP1 from the hand, after getting 3-bet he probably figures you for a 7 or 8, but he caps to represent an overpair. Because of this you check the turn to him and he can check behind and get a "free" shot at hitting his AK on the river. It misses and he checks behind on the river u/i. His play worked, but I think he also loses a lot when he's behind something bigger that continues betting into him.
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#16
10-21-2005, 02:36 PM
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Re: T8s in front of a rock
[ QUOTE ]
3-betting the flop is just bad in my opinion - weak player or no. You're just charging yourself when they won't fold often enough for the given price against the pot for the play. The river is now a compounded errors problem. You can feel reasonably certain you're beat, but your mistake on the flop now provides a pot that lays you 8-1 on your call if he bets. No way is leading the river good poker imo. - Jim [/ QUOTE ] 3 betting the flop was in a sense somewhat of a desparation play costing me as well as a play that might very well confuse the Rock. I believe that he made a error by capping. By capping he "let me off the hook," allowing me to check the turn without admitting weakness. As played, he then blundered, imo, by checking behind on the turn (he could just as easily flipped his cards up at me revealing his AK). I am just shy of having odds to call a turn bet and would not have. The river is, as you say, unbetable but is check callable.
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#17
10-21-2005, 02:40 PM
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Re: T8s in front of a rock
Against a rock, the last thing you want to do with your powerhouse pair of 8s is call/reraise his raise.
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#18
10-21-2005, 02:42 PM
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Re: T8s in front of a rock
[ QUOTE ]
I think you need to work on your player descriptions. - Jim [/ QUOTE ] Jim: his stats were rockish using the default setting in pt and i still believe him to be weakish; his turn check behind confirmed this. his river check is good, reflecting reasonableness because I instacall a river bet. what is confusing about my description?
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#20
10-21-2005, 02:58 PM
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Re: T8s in front of a rock
In my opinion, I would never qualify someone as weak passive if they were capable of raising overcards.
This player wasn't looking to bluff you off your hand btw, they tried to raise for a free card and to knock out the other player. When you 3-bet, they capped for a free card. This isn't a player I would try to go after at the table unless I identified other weak spots in their game. - Jim
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