JJ in the BB

[W. Deranged]

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post this in the micro limit forum.

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[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]

[QTip]

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post this in the micro limit forum.

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Then answer this please.

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I normally prefer a bet/3bet line to a favorable flop. However, I'd like to see some discussion on which boards would be better for a c/r than for a bet/3bet line.

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[Shillx]

Actually the exact same setup happened to me last night in a very odd 2/4 game. The flop came out T55 and I bet with the intention of 3-betting. He folded to the flop bet. [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img]

I like just calling with JJ in general here.

[hellite]

"I like just calling with JJ in general here."

not goot. Do see why you?

[QTip]

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"I like just calling with JJ in general here."

not goot. Do see why you?

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oh....I had you all wrong...

[Shillx]

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"I like just calling with JJ in general here."

not goot. Do see why you?

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No I don't. Now might be a good time for you to morph into someone that has something interesting to say.

[hellite]

In, general calling raise with JJ ut of the BB is horrendous. You should see this as it is basic preflop play. Sometimes a smooth call heads up is OK, but if you are regularly calling a raise here, you are losing yourself some money. A threee bet is a must! I mean what hands are you waiting for AA-QQ? STANDARD

[Borodog]

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In, general calling raise with JJ ut of the BB is horrendous. You should see this as it is basic preflop play. Sometimes a smooth call heads up is OK, but if you are regularly calling a raise here, you are losing yourself some money. A threee bet is a must! I mean what hands are you waiting for AA-QQ? STANDARD

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This isn't why he's calling. In fact, QQ, KK, and AA would each be successively more likely to make calling not incorrect.

[hellite]

I do not disagree, and that is exactly the reason a three bet is the superior play here. Using deception in hopes to gain extra bets on later streets w/JJ is far less profitable than with the hands you mentioned as an overcard will come far less often w/AA KK or QQ.

The hopes of getting a three-bet in on the flop is dire as a good TAG is not usually raising mere overcards - especially if they get three bet preflop - on a ragged flop against a good player. The three bet really does two things among others: (1) Protects against being bluffed off your hand on favorable flops and (2)puts money in the pot when you are ahead.

[QTip]

[ QUOTE ]
In, general calling raise with JJ ut of the BB is horrendous. You should see this as it is basic preflop play. Sometimes a smooth call heads up is OK, but if you are regularly calling a raise here, you are losing yourself some money. A threee bet is a must! I mean what hands are you waiting for AA-QQ? STANDARD

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You're tone is terrible. Try to calm down a bit. It will go a long way for your future correspondence in the forum.

Hand 1: 49.2547 % 48.24% 01.01% { 99+, ATs+, KQs, AKo }

Hand 2: 50.7453 % 49.73% 01.01% { JJ }

How excited are you about going into the hand with even equity OOP against a solid player?

What I was more interested in talking over in this post was the postflop play given certain cards. I'd much rather wait for a scenario like this:

Board: 4d 7s 2d
Dead:

equity (%) win (%) tie (%)
Hand 1: 43.2754 % 42.49% 00.78% { 99+, ATs+, KQs, AKo }

Hand 2: 56.7246 % 55.94% 00.78% { JJ }

So...I can wait to see if the flop is anything like one of these:

Board: 4d 7s Kd
Dead:

equity (%) win (%) tie (%)
Hand 1: 59.4311 % 58.53% 00.90% { 99+, ATs+, KQs, AKo }

Hand 2: 40.5689 % 39.67% 00.90% { JJ }


Board: 4d 7s Ad
Dead:

equity (%) win (%) tie (%)
Hand 1: 66.4529 % 65.53% 00.93% { 99+, ATs+, KQs, AKo }

Hand 2: 33.5471 % 32.62% 00.93% { JJ }

Board: Kd Qh 4d
Dead:

equity (%) win (%) tie (%)
Hand 1: 61.3389 % 60.32% 01.02% { 99+, ATs+, KQs, AKo }

Hand 2: 38.6611 % 37.64% 01.02% { JJ }


So, in answer to your question as to what I'm waiting for...positive equity. So, yes, QQ will be a good start:

equity (%) win (%) tie (%)
Hand 1: 41.7309 % 40.69% 01.05% { 99+, ATs+, KQs, AKo }

Hand 2: 58.2691 % 57.22% 01.05% { QQ }


In answer to the question I had posed earlier. I spoker with a friend about it, and I like what we determined. Against a thinking, solid player, a c/r is probably the best line with the right flop. This is because they will not always autoraise the flop.

However, against an aggressive, non-thinking player who will autoraise overcards, bet/3bet is probably the best line.

So, not so much board texture as much as just opponents.