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#12
10-17-2005, 02:27 PM
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Re: Small flush on paired board
[ QUOTE ]
And about 'outplaying people' postflop and that being the reason why I played this hand. No!!! I played this hand to MAKE A HAND and 'outplay' people by value betting my better hand since they can't lay down. Not by trying to bluff the unbluffable. [/ QUOTE ] Well, considering that you have no shot at making a hand outside of runner runner given that flop, why not take a shot at it on the flop? Don't tell me that NL400 players can't lay down QQ there to a PSB. 
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#14
10-17-2005, 02:33 PM
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Re: Small flush on paired board
I consider raising the turn here sometimes. Those min-bets are annoying and often they will fold to pressure. Most of the time these are draws or someone hoping you have the check/fold button checked off. Sometimes though less often it is a huge hand. Only problem with the raise is they might not give you credit for a hand with no flop action, but even so often they won't have the stones to rebluff if they have nothing.
I don't think I raise that river for reasons others have mentioned. Getting over 3:1 I think I call it though.
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#15
10-17-2005, 02:36 PM
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Re: Small flush on paired board
[ QUOTE ]
NL400 players can't lay down QQ there to a PSB. [/ QUOTE ] Edit: Also, you don't have to win every pot. Just because this flop is really bad for me doesn't mean I have to bluff at it. I can just fold.
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#16
10-17-2005, 02:36 PM
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Re: Small flush on paired board
[ QUOTE ]
Yeah but they do (or can) check AK on that flop. [/ QUOTE ] This is also true.
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#17
10-17-2005, 02:39 PM
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Re: Small flush on paired board
[ QUOTE ]
I consider raising the turn here sometimes. [/ QUOTE ] I considered raising the turn here, too. But then I said that I had no idea what they had since, as you said, the min-bet can mean many things and even if it means a draw they probably wont fold even to a big raise and even if it means a marginal made hand they still probably wont fold even to a big raise and it also could mean a monster. And it is 3-way. They BOTH need to fold for a raise to work out well for me. See my location for why I just called. [ QUOTE ] I don't think I raise that river for reasons others have mentioned. Getting over 3:1 I think I call it though. [/ QUOTE ] Cool. Thanks.
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#18
10-17-2005, 02:46 PM
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Re: Small flush on paired board
[ QUOTE ]
Edit: Also, you don't have to win every pot. Just because this flop is really bad for me doesn't mean I have to bluff at it. I can just fold. [/ QUOTE ] Of course that's true. But. You also have to look for situations where you can take pots when you don't have the cards. And I think that this qualifies.
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#19
10-17-2005, 02:56 PM
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Re: Small flush on paired board
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] Edit: Also, you don't have to win every pot. Just because this flop is really bad for me doesn't mean I have to bluff at it. I can just fold. [/ QUOTE ] Of course that's true. But. You also have to look for situations where you can take pots when you don't have the cards. And I think that this qualifies. [/ QUOTE ] Then what are your criteria for which pots qualify? Cause honestly this looks like one of the worst possible spots to fire on the flop. Here is my thinking, but I am very interested in hearing yours (since I, too, love stealing pots). 1. The EP player could be slowplaying. Since I am acting behind the PFR, I might fall into EP's trap that was meant for the PFR. That would be ugly. 2. The PFR might be slowplaying. As you, yourself, pointed out there are no draws on this board. It is only 3-way and he doesn't have to fear overcards if he has a pair of aces here. This is as good a spot as any for him to check top pair. 3. My bet looks a lot like a steal. I am on the BN, the preflop raiser has checked. I will often get called here by KK and QQ. They do not give credit that easily when you bet from the BN short-handed. 4. I have no outs if called. When I try to steal, I prefer to at least have 4 outs so that if I hit a miracle and he actually has a big hand I can recoup my losses and then some and actually benefit from the larger pot. Here, I have no realistic chance of winning the hand at showdown so his folding % has to be higher because there is hardly any chance that I will be getting any of the pot back if he calls. What do you think?
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#20
10-17-2005, 03:13 PM
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Re: Small flush on paired board
I don't know why no one wants to raise this river. MP can't have a boat unless he is extremely trick. 99% of people raise fullhouses on the river with one player left to act. This leaves MP with a J-h or Q-h flush as the only hands that beat us. BB might have a boat or a big flush but he certainly can call a raise with worst hands then the third nut flush. You have enough money back that its an easy fold to a three bet and you could paid off in two places by worst hands. I pop it to 130ish and fold to reraise.
If both fold trips or small flushes to a raise then you need to be bluffing raising more in these situations. It just isn't that easy to have full houses or nut flushes.
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