way ahead, way behind

[ QUOTE ]
To complicate the strategy a little: let's say your opponent is a very aggressive player who likes to bluff and is very likely to try to use that A to push you off a hand (assuming the play of the hand up till now has led him to believe you're on a pocket pair).
Against such an opponent, you should bet knowing full well that he's likely to checkraise and you will call down.
This of course is more risky than simply checking behind because he may accidentally happen to have an A. But if your opponent's tendency is to play too loose and aggressively, you have to take that risk sometimes to let him hang himself.

[/ QUOTE ]
This is an excellent point, and playing this way can be a very profitable strategy against the right opponent. This is a great example of how knowing your opponent can make you extra money.

[Dominic]

Well this is the first time I've ever toggled a thread I created!

Thanks to everyone who contributed.

[goofball]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
would someone kindly explain this concept, and how it affects the betting of a semi-strong hand?

[/ QUOTE ]
Ok I'll try to give you an example. Lets say that a tricky aggressive player limps in utg and you raise with QQ and everyone folds and the player calls. Lets say the flop comes out A 8 4. He checks and you bet and he calls. The turn is a blank, and he checks again, you should consider checking behind also since you are either way ahead or way behind and only the king would be a bad river card for you. By playing your hand this way you avoid being checkraised on the turn and possibly folding the best hand or calling down drawing to two outs, and plus you may induce him to bluff the river or even call the river when he mightve folded the turn.
Heres another example of a hand i just played yesterday, I raise with JcJs utg, 3 people call including a loose aggressive player on the button and both blinds fold. The flop comes out Qc3c3d. I bet, two players fold and the Loose aggressive player calls. The turn brings the 6c. I now check partially becuz i now have a club draw and partially becuz im in a way ahead way behind situation and the villain cannot have AK since he wouldve reraised preflop, so im not worried about an ace or a king hitting the river since at worst only one of those cards can beat me. So I check the turn, and the villain bets, and I call, the river is a total blank, I check, the villain bets and I call and he turns over A8 for a total bluff. By playing my hand in an awkward fashion I got the villain to bluff off 2BB, and i also avoided the uncomfortable situation of getting popped on the turn. In many WA/WB sitations the correct strategy is usually to check and call, but keep in mind that these situations usually only apply to heads up situations. And if you are against weak predictable opponents who would never raise you without the goods but will call you down with very weak hands than you should be betting to collect more money since you can safely fold to a checkraise. Against these type of opponents checking decent hands cuz you are in a WA/WB situation will just cost you money.

[/ QUOTE ]

very nice post.

[Dazarath]

KK on a AA6r flop is WAWB. QQ on a A84r is not.

In the first situation, *if* your opponent has outs, it's at most 2. If you're the one drawing, then you have 2 outs. In the second situation, your opponent can have 5 outs if he already has a pair. It's definitely a way behind situation, but I wouldn't call it way ahead.

The example that always comes to my mind is AA on a 922r flop. Same thing here; whoever's behind has 2 outs.

A standard play for me in these situations against unknowns is to bet and call down against any aggression. The thing is, with the KK/AA6 situation, if you bet/3-bet, you're folding a lot of the hands that you want to call and you're getting 4-bet by the hands that have you crushed. Another line I like, is to let them hang themselves on a bluff or with a weak hand. Some players will fire into a PFR with 22 on that AA6 flop. I'd rather call down and get 2.5 BBs than raise the flop and help him correctly fold. Occasionally, I'll take the check-call/check-call/bet-call line (if I'm OOP) to insure that I get the last bet in.

Against any 30+ VPIP player, though, I am bet/3-betting and slowing down to a flop cap or turn raise. Or basically, I'm using this line against people who like to slowplay a lot, but are loose enough to go to showdown even when it's obvious that their 6 is no good.

With the AA/922 situation, I'm putting in more bets, as a 22x flop is less scary than a AAx flop, for obvious reasons. Also, if it gets bet + raised in front of me (I'm assuming not by total donks), I'm much more likely to raise/call down with the AA/992, rather than the KK/AA6.