open-limping from early positions

[toss]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
??? Please join my 30 or 50 game.


[/ QUOTE ]

With all due respect, I am referring to small stakes games (5/10 and below). From what I have heard, the higher stakes games are much more aggressive and tougher, and yes, playing QJs or JTs is probably a costly mistake in those games.

In a game where you feel like you have an edge against most player, I don't see limping with these hands as an error.

[/ QUOTE ]

A lot of online 3/6 and especially 5/10 games feature tight tables where you'll often be isolated should you limp in EP with suited connectors.

[Fat Nicky]

[ QUOTE ]
A lot of online 3/6 and especially 5/10 games feature tight tables where you'll often be isolated should you limp in EP with suited connectors.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think one thing we could all agree on is that limping with these hands from EP is very table specific

[brettbrettr]

[ QUOTE ]

??? Please join my 30 or 50 game.

[/ QUOTE ]

No one is talking about a 30 or 50 game. Yes, I agree that if the game textures don't lend themselves to playing these types of hands, then don't. But a lof of people on this board play these games and disagree that these hands should be discarded entirely.

[toss]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
A lot of online 3/6 and especially 5/10 games feature tight tables where you'll often be isolated should you limp in EP with suited connectors.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think one thing we could all agree on is that limping with these hands from EP is very table specific

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah I agree.

[Akimka]

[ QUOTE ]
Open limping is usually a big mistake, esp at tighter tables. Trouble hands include hands like JTs or QJs, but you can easily raise hands like KQo, KJs, and AJo and even ATo. Just keep in mind the texture of the table with this raises. At a looser table where you can expect 2-3 cold calls, it might not be a mistake to raise JTs or QJs in EP, but it would probably be a huge mistake to raise ATo.

[/ QUOTE ]

Can you please take any further with it? Is offsuit hands drop in value so much that you can consider folding of ATo/AJo/KQo in EP in loose games and raise first in with QJs/JTs and so and vice verse for tight tables (muck medium suited conn. and raise FI with medium offsuit A-high and K-high (KQ))

[adios]

Thanks for the sincere and honest reply. Ok as to why they're easier to play if you raise, I don't know how much easier it can be to play a hand where when you limp you encourage a multi-way pot and fold if you don't hit your set on the flop knowing that someone has you beat, you have few outs, and the pot isn't laying you enough to take a card off. I suppose someone could make an argument that they can read the situation accurately and decide when they're middling pair is best. But I would think the same reasons apply if you limp with them. If you tend to get the pot heads up when you raise then ok but I doubt if this happens very often when you raise UTG with 77. Maybe people just play marginal hands out of position alot better than I do which could certainly be the case. I know for me, with a marginal hand after the flop out of position, I know I'm going to fold some hands where I should see it through and see it through when I should fold. In other words I'm going to make some "mistakes" in those situations. I also think that perhaps it's done for image reasons but not sure and perhaps to make you harder to read after the flop. For me because everyone else does it isn't good enough. I'm also fairly certain from a pre-flop equity standpoint, there's no great advantage to raising with these middling pairs but could be convinced otherwise for sure. Again thanks for your reply.

[W. Deranged]

[ QUOTE ]
well im back up to 5/10 again, and while tonight the games have actually been very easy(and ive been running exceptionally well, up 160 BB for the night), i have been thinking about eliminating open-limping from early positions from my arsenal in tougher games

im thinking just throw out hands like JTs and QJs in games where im likely to be isolated if i limp, and make my minumim open raising standards(from early position) something like 77, KJs, ATs, KQo, and AJo, folding everything else

what do yall think of this?

[/ QUOTE ]

New,

I've been toying with this idea myself. QJs, QTs, and JTs have been actually losing money recently and I'm pretty convinved it's because pretty much every time I open limp with them in early position I get stuck in horrible positions in short-handed, raised pots. (This is at 5/10). Unless the table texture is obviously good I'm pretty much going to forgo open-limping those because they are so rarely finding profitable spots.

I like open-raising KQo, AJo, 77+ and so on. I'll throw away 55- and 66 is largely dependent on my whim. I've also started considering mucking ATs in early position at some games though I wonder if this is taking it too far...

[Fnord]

http://www.jesusferguson.com/cgi-bin...update.cgi?s=1

Once you get to tougher 3/6, most 5/10 and most games bigger than that online I think this starts to apply unless you have a loose table read.

I'll raise QJs from EP because I like what it does for my game and the results I've had with it. Anything weaker gets tossed unless the game is good enough to limp 22.

[newhizzle]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
A lot of online 3/6 and especially 5/10 games feature tight tables where you'll often be isolated should you limp in EP with suited connectors.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think one thing we could all agree on is that limping with these hands from EP is very table specific

[/ QUOTE ]

i think it is, the changes i am suggesting are mostly referring to the tougher, tighter of the 5/10 games where if i limp, i am likely to be raised and have to play a hand with little showdown value OOP, and im not really putting anything in stone, just looking for thoughts, thanks for everyones input