[2/4] KK vs. unknowns, AAX flops

[krimson]

I bet the flop and bet the turn when checked too. If someone c/r's me on the turn, then i'm beat, and let it go. If people are c/c'ing, then I just check behind on the river.

Also, what happened pre-flop? It's pretty important to the hand.

[brettbrettr]

Bet the flop, yo.

[Xhad]

After looking over these responses I realized the real reason I posted this thread: I kind of just got into SS online and I don't know how the typical unknown plays. Much of this boils down to "I know exactly how to handle the B&M players I see every week in this situation, but not a complete stranger." So the question I'm really asking (or should have asked) is that if I bet and get called, should I still expect to have the best hand? Also is folding to a c/r safe? (I can see a lot more merit in betting if being checkraised doesn't automatically take you off your hand)

I dug up the HHs, converter isn't working so here:

Hand 1: 8 players to start (I am the button), UTG folds, UTG + 1 calls, CO calls, I raise, blinds fold, both limpers call. Flop is AA3, everyone checks, turn is a 3 in the fourth suit, limpers check, I bet, CO calls. River 7, we both check (in hindsight I should have bet here, this is like never going to be a hand that beats me right?), villain has 99.

Hand 2: Hero LP-posts in CO, UTG folds, UTG + 1 raises, Hero 3-bets, Button folds, both blinds and UTG + 1 call. Flop AA8, everyone checks, turn 3, Hero bets and everyone folds.

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you should bet the flop, the fact that there are 2 aces make it less likely that someone has one

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I'm sure betting is +EV for this reason alone, as I'm way ahead the majority of the time; I'm just wondering if checking helps me when I'm behind more than it hurts when I am ahead. In the situation where you have TT I think the answer is no because of hands with 3-6 outs like KQ, QJ, K9s, etc, but I'm not so sure about the case where you can't lose to an overcard.

[ QUOTE ]
Because everyone checks to you on the turn, it suggests they don't have an ace. Bet and if you are not check-raised, your hand is probably good. It's possible that draws or a lower pair will call hoping to draw out on you on the river.

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I agree, and after thinking it over I think betting the flop or the turn is mandatory here, though I'm not so sure about betting the flop and the turn. The case for betting the flop is improved if you are willing to call a c/r, or if you are not willing to call a turn bet (though I think folding a turn bet against unknowns is terrible).

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It would help to at least know what limit these hands are being played at.

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See subject line.

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If it's HU (or 3-way against the right players) on the river I'm value-betting.

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It's a 2/4 party table that I joined less than five minutes ago and have maybe 25 hands worth of stats for. Are these the right players?

[ QUOTE ]
Not betting the flop sucks. The flop isn't great but, it's not the worst flop either. Giving the field a free card here really sucks.

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How many outs do my opponents have when I'm ahead? I'm guessing at least one has no pair, and anyone with a pair has two plus maybe a backdoor draw, so I'm looking at 4-5 outs, collectively, in exchange for giving myself a free card and getting to see the turn action (I bet here every time regardless of the field if I am not last to act, as I'm not guaranteed a free card and I can't fold if someone bets. I also bet if I could lose to an overcard as with QQ and below). Or are you saying checking sucks because the 2/4 players are loose enough to call with a lot of little unimproved pairs?

[SoSo]

bet the flop.