Calling Away

[QTip]

[ QUOTE ]
Were you hoping for a raise behind you so you could 3-bet?

[/ QUOTE ]

I certainly would have gotten busy at that point.

[SlantNGo]

What about extracting value from Ax? I agree with the rest, raise the turn.

[flair1239]

[ QUOTE ]
I don't think this hand is as clear cut as people are saying. Opps are either drawing to 2 outs, 3 outs, or 8 outs. Because you have redraws, you can put the outs as more like 2, 3, and 6. You win the most if the 2 and 3 outers call the flop and turn instead of folding, so calling is better. But you win less if someone has 6 outs. Since these guys are calling stations, their range is wider than pairs and flush draws, they could even be drawing dead. I don't think the flush draw is out there more than half the time...this is rambling, but it's not that clearcut IMO.

-SmileyEH

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If these guys are as bad as he decribed then the raise would be for value just as much a protection. He says they like to call, well... lets give them something to call.

If they are willing to make a big mistake give them a chance to. Also I doubt a bad player is folding Ax here. I really do think it is clear cut. It is a large multi-way pot, with players who maybe willing to call two cold.

[sfer]

I start raising immediately.

[SmileyEH]

What Qtip is saying is these guys could easily be overcalling with a pocket pair, or just 2 cards. They will fold for 2bets but call for 1. The frequencies is what makes the difference.

-SmileyEH

[QTip]

[ QUOTE ]
What Qtip is saying is these guys could easily be overcalling with a pocket pair, or just 2 cards. They will fold for 2bets but call for 1. The frequencies is what makes the difference.

-SmileyEH

[/ QUOTE ]

This is really how I felt. They could fold to 2 bets, but liked to call down if it was for one.

I see where everone's coming from, and I do see the value in the raise.

The results were really perfect for this line, but I got to thinking about it all later.

[Fat Nicky]

[ QUOTE ]
they like to call, well... lets give them something to call.


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my thoughts exactly. I feel dirty not raising somewhere in this hand. You could potentially be missing out a various bets.

[DMBFan23]

I raise the flop cause that's how I'd play 88-KK

[flair1239]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
What Qtip is saying is these guys could easily be overcalling with a pocket pair, or just 2 cards. They will fold for 2bets but call for 1. The frequencies is what makes the difference.

-SmileyEH

[/ QUOTE ]

This is really how I felt. They could fold to 2 bets, but liked to call down if it was for one.

I see where everone's coming from, and I do see the value in the raise.

The results were really perfect for this line, but I got to thinking about it all later.

[/ QUOTE ]

Might have my math wrong, but somebody with 2 outs calling one bet earns us .955 BB/100. Somebody calling 2 bets cold earns us 1.91BB/100 ??????

So yeah it becomes a math problem... but these are supposedly bad players... so are they no likely to call teo cold.

[jason_t]

[ QUOTE ]
I start raising immediately.

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I agree. Most of these people don't expect you to play an A this way.