this spot sucks

[James282]

I think bet-fold is pretty reasonable.
-James

[flawless_victory]

your play thus far is fine, do not pay off the river.
you are gonna look/feel really stupid.

You are getting 12-1 to call. Its funny, I made a strong argument for folding and then I turned around and made a strong argument for calling. I think when you are getting 12-1, any argument for calling must trump any arugment for folding. The only time you should fold the river getting 12-1 is when there is no valid argument for calling. Put another way, getting 12-1 even the smallest reason to call makes this a must call. I think the villains strange play of this hand makes the river play a must call. I still expect the hero to lose the majority of the time, but i believe the call is profitable getting 12-1.

[mc1023]

ok so in the end I did call and here's the reasons why.

First off, I would hate to get bluff'd on the river here by SB, it would hurt my image not going to showdown after all this.

Second, from a meta-game perspective I really wanted to see how he got there with an ACE if in fact he did have an ace which was 90% likely.

Third, I gave myself a chance that 1-12 times my hand will be good here and also that 1-12 times its going to be a chop.

Results below:
SB has Ad As (straight, ace high).
Hero has 9s Qh (straight, king high).
Outcome: SB wins 13 BB.

I realized this guy was a monkey after this hand and eventually saw him go broke at the table [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

[Dazarath]

[ QUOTE ]
You are getting 12-1 to call. Its funny, I made a strong argument for folding and then I turned around and made a strong argument for calling. I think when you are getting 12-1, any argument for calling must trump any arugment for folding. The only time you should fold the river getting 12-1 is when there is no valid argument for calling. Put another way, getting 12-1 even the smallest reason to call makes this a must call. I think the villains strange play of this hand makes the river play a must call. I still expect the hero to lose the majority of the time, but i believe the call is profitable getting 12-1.

[/ QUOTE ]

That's terrible reasoning. That's basically saying anything better than the nut low is worth a call because.. OMG I'm getting 12-1. Or is the nut low worth a call too, because you may chop? 12-1 means you need to be good 1 out of 13 times, or ~7.7% of the time just to breakeven. If your "small reason" tells you that your hand is good 5% of the time, it's a -EV call.

[mikelow]

....bets.

If raised, I lean to a fold because there are too many
ways to be shown an ace and I don't want to invest two
big bets to find out.

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
You are getting 12-1 to call. Its funny, I made a strong argument for folding and then I turned around and made a strong argument for calling. I think when you are getting 12-1, any argument for calling must trump any arugment for folding. The only time you should fold the river getting 12-1 is when there is no valid argument for calling. Put another way, getting 12-1 even the smallest reason to call makes this a must call. I think the villains strange play of this hand makes the river play a must call. I still expect the hero to lose the majority of the time, but i believe the call is profitable getting 12-1.

[/ QUOTE ]

That's terrible reasoning. That's basically saying anything better than the nut low is worth a call because.. OMG I'm getting 12-1. Or is the nut low worth a call too, because you may chop? 12-1 means you need to be good 1 out of 13 times, or ~7.7% of the time just to breakeven. If your "small reason" tells you that your hand is good 5% of the time, it's a -EV call.

[/ QUOTE ]
If you dont understand why the hero must call the river i suggest you go back to the original post and reread it.

[ QUOTE ]
your play thus far is fine, do not pay off the river.
you are gonna look/feel really stupid.

[/ QUOTE ]
Given the way the hand played out, this is a good profitable call by the hero.

[flawless_victory]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
your play thus far is fine, do not pay off the river.
you are gonna look/feel really stupid.

[/ QUOTE ]
Given the way the hand played out, this is a good profitable call by the hero.

[/ QUOTE ]oh ok, thx 4 the lesson!
BTW/ you are a sucker.. sry!