The bible proves that god exists argument

[chezlaw]

[ QUOTE ]
I'm trying to argue with someone who keeps quoting bible verses to claim that god exists and that we should believe in him.

For example, from John 15:1 "I am the vine, you are the branches. He who abides in Me, and I in him, bears much fruit; for without Me you can do nothing."

Now, can someone give me some ammo, especially dealing with what logical fallacy this is, etc.

I am having a hard time recalling what I learned in Philosophy 101.

[/ QUOTE ]

Not good on fallacy names, is this one begging the question.

You can't tackle it from his starting point. The question is why does he believe the bible is true. If he says because it's the word of god then its a circular argument. You can only point out its circular, if his happy with his circular argument then there's nothing you can do to counter it - but circular arguments prove nothing.

If he tries to justify the bible by other means then you have the basis of a sensible conversation.

chez

[Sponger15SB]

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Unfortunately, you can't use logic and reason with those who choose to have "faith" in their beliefs no matter what.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah, he just threw out the faith argument.

Ugh, cryptonite.....

Btw, this is all taking place on the other message board I frequent. Its a bodyboarding message board for mostly people from southern california.

[Aytumious]

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typical reply-very intriguing

[/ QUOTE ]

Is it not the correct response?

[Girchuck]

Ask him what is his method of distinguishing divine revelation from hubris?

[fnord_too]

If no one said it in the thread, I think the fallacy you are looking for is assuming the conclusion.

Tell him if he wants to prove that the god of the bible is real, he needs to use non biblical sources. You can try to tell him that his technique is the same as saying Gandalf the Grey really existed and citing The Hobit and Lord of the Rings passages as proof. I doubt you will get very far, though. (Never argue with a fool and all that...)

[Chris Daddy Cool]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Unfortunately, you can't use logic and reason with those who choose to have "faith" in their beliefs no matter what.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah, he just threw out the faith argument.

Ugh, cryptonite.....

Btw, this is all taking place on the other message board I frequent. Its a bodyboarding message board for mostly people from southern california.

[/ QUOTE ]

holy crap. how do you even find the time for another forum when you're all over 2+2?

[jason_t]

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Creation is only a theory, just like evolution is only a theory. Neither can be totally proven, or disproven.



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Link.

[RJT]

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[ QUOTE ]

Creation is only a theory, just like evolution is only a theory. Neither can be totally proven, or disproven.



[/ QUOTE ]

Link.

[/ QUOTE ]

Dang you Jason,

I just went to your link. I started to read it, then I realized it is 12 pages. I am at work. I can't read it now, too long. I printed it out to read later. But, I have my weekly poker game to go to. It looks very interesting.

Dang you again (but thanks, too) ,

RJT

[RJT]

Jason,

Nice to see you stopped by here in the forum. I had noticed you (hard not to with your avatar) in the B & B forum (I mean B & M) . Just so you know, this is the Hotel California. “You can checkout any time you like,
But you can never leave!”

Welcome,

RJT

very good link.

thanks
I actually learned something here for once