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#11
10-05-2005, 04:59 PM
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Re: What was the point of my post?
I think it depends in large part on the skill level of the UTG player. If he's a poor player who's dropping money like crazy, you can prolly find a better spot to get your money in. If he's solid, or better than you, this is about as good as it's gonna get.
Doyle Brunson tells a story a lot like this about how he was playing a drunk guy at stud, and got all his money in with top pair vs. a flush draw. He lost, and was the only person not to win a lot off that guy. The lesson he took away is that he coulda found a better spot against a player like that. 
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#12
10-05-2005, 05:03 PM
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Re: What was the point of my post?
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] #2 I was curious how many people would take this "coin flip"? I think there is too much autopilot play and a lot of the advice on the forum follows this trend. [/ QUOTE ] The way you presented it, it is an autopilot call. [/ QUOTE ] I do not think that it was an autopilot call because it relied on an understanding of how an opponent plays (the tell), plus the edge was so small that many ignore it during play or wait for a bigger edge. [/ QUOTE ] You said it was 100% that he had AK against your 55 and that it would be HU. You have the edge. This isn't a tourney where you wait for a 'bigger' edge. Easy call. [ QUOTE ] The poll results support this in that 1/3 of the responders would not call! I can understand some people's view of trying to avoid high variance swings, but I do not think that that was the reason why so many people did not call. [/ QUOTE ] What other reason would there be other than variance that they wouldn't call when they have an edge? In a tourney, I could see folding. Not a cash game. b
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#13
10-05-2005, 11:24 PM
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Re: What was the point of my post?
[ QUOTE ]
What other reason would there be other than variance that they wouldn't call when they have an edge? [/ QUOTE ] Good question. The answers were quite surprising. [names removed] [ QUOTE ] wow, it is pretty ridiculous how many people say yes take those noobs money some other hands, dont just play base on luck, this is retarded [/ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] And if your in a cash game calling an all in preflop with 5-5 your an idiot if stacks are even. I don't care if he has AK or not if your gonna gamble for those odds go play roulette and put it on black. [/ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] I don't coinflip. If I get all in preflop, I'll have Kings or Aces. [/ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] No I don't. Obviously it's positive EV, but I think I can improve my edge much more significantly by just playing hands on the flop, turn, and river. There's are better times to get all the money in and for me, I like to get a better edge too. [/ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] Its an easy fold. Why would I want to coin flip for my stack. Im a huge favorite in the game and I can get all my money in as a huge favorte. I agree with Bob Schiffone who says stay away from situations where you are either a small favorite or a huge under dog. [/ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] In the long run, this won't make much of a difference. You're gaining what, 5BB per call? [/ QUOTE ]
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#14
10-06-2005, 01:19 AM
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Re: What was the point of my post?
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] What other reason would there be other than variance that they wouldn't call when they have an edge? [/ QUOTE ] Good question. The answers were quite surprising. [names removed] [ QUOTE ] wow, it is pretty ridiculous how many people say yes take those noobs money some other hands, dont just play base on luck, this is retarded [/ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] And if your in a cash game calling an all in preflop with 5-5 your an idiot if stacks are even. I don't care if he has AK or not if your gonna gamble for those odds go play roulette and put it on black. [/ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] I don't coinflip. If I get all in preflop, I'll have Kings or Aces. [/ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] No I don't. Obviously it's positive EV, but I think I can improve my edge much more significantly by just playing hands on the flop, turn, and river. There's are better times to get all the money in and for me, I like to get a better edge too. [/ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] Its an easy fold. Why would I want to coin flip for my stack. Im a huge favorite in the game and I can get all my money in as a huge favorte. I agree with Bob Schiffone who says stay away from situations where you are either a small favorite or a huge under dog. [/ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] In the long run, this won't make much of a difference. You're gaining what, 5BB per call? [/ QUOTE ] [/ QUOTE ] All variance, imo. These aren't really that suprising. Love the roulette reference. He really thinks it's the same thing? [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img] I don't see any answer where it would be highly unlikely you'd ever have that good a read on a guy to be in this situation. Wouldn't it be more realistic if some loose guy who loves going all in preflop with pairs or big aces goes all in in front of you, you know it will be HU, and you have say, QQ-TT? b
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#15
10-06-2005, 12:39 PM
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Re: What was the point of my post?
[ QUOTE ]
Wouldn't it be more realistic if some loose guy who loves going all in preflop with pairs or big aces goes all in in front of you, you know it will be HU, and you have say, QQ-TT? b [/ QUOTE ] Absolutely, but the question would not have been so cut and dry because of the math involved.
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#16
10-06-2005, 01:21 PM
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Re: What was the point of my post?
I feel that if you had proposed QQ instead of 55, then a lot more people would say they would call...
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#17
10-06-2005, 02:18 PM
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Re: What was the point of my post?
[ QUOTE ]
I feel that if you had proposed QQ instead of 55, then a lot more people would say they would call... [/ QUOTE ] I agree, but doesn't that tell you something about how they look at the strength of their hands? QQ only picks up 2% on 55, a little more in your favor, but not earth shattering. http://twodimes.net/h/?z=49853 pokenum -h qs qd - ac kh Holdem Hi: 1712304 enumerated boards cards win %win lose %lose tie %tie EV Qs Qd 975909 56.99 730541 42.66 5854 0.34 0.572 Ac Kh 730541 42.66 975909 56.99 5854 0.34 0.428 http://twodimes.net/h/?z=390122 pokenum -h 5s 5d - ac kh Holdem Hi: 1712304 enumerated boards cards win %win lose %lose tie %tie EV 5s 5d 938751 54.82 767007 44.79 6546 0.38 0.550 Ac Kh 767007 44.79 938751 54.82 6546 0.38 0.450
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#18
10-06-2005, 03:07 PM
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Re: What was the point of my post?
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] I feel that if you had proposed QQ instead of 55, then a lot more people would say they would call... [/ QUOTE ] I agree, but doesn't that tell you something about how they look at the strength of their hands? QQ only picks up 2% on 55, a little more in your favor, but not earth shattering. http://twodimes.net/h/?z=49853 pokenum -h qs qd - ac kh Holdem Hi: 1712304 enumerated boards cards win %win lose %lose tie %tie EV Qs Qd 975909 56.99 730541 42.66 5854 0.34 0.572 Ac Kh 730541 42.66 975909 56.99 5854 0.34 0.428 http://twodimes.net/h/?z=390122 pokenum -h 5s 5d - ac kh Holdem Hi: 1712304 enumerated boards cards win %win lose %lose tie %tie EV 5s 5d 938751 54.82 767007 44.79 6546 0.38 0.550 Ac Kh 767007 44.79 938751 54.82 6546 0.38 0.450 [/ QUOTE ] And given that the AK could be soooted, the odds are ever so slightly worse. More math, dammit!
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