In a gun-free/defense free society this is all that would happen... - Page 2

MMMMMM · #11 10-03-2005, 02:09 PM

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That was quite a sleight of hand. First you say we have achieved a gun-free society, then someone comes up with a gun!

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Past attempts to create an alcohol-free society, and present attempts to create a society free from illicit drugs, have both failed abominably.

In light of this, does ANYONE realistically think that we could create a gun-free society, where criminals could not get guns?

Criminals will always have guns, regardless of whether or not the rest of us do.

If guns were to be banned in the USA, guns would simply be smuggled across international borders, just as gargantuan quantities of cocaine and heroin are so smuggled today (and that despite the existence of current draconian penalties for so doing).

What it comes down to, really, is economics. The more illegal a desired thing becomes, the greater the monetary rewards for those who provide it illicitly. Hence the vicious cycle. Hence criminals will always be able to obtain guns.

All a "gun-free society" would mean, is that members of legal society would be more defenseless against members of illegal society (so to speak). Doubtless that is the point which the original poster was trying to make.

#12 10-03-2005, 02:19 PM

but aren't there virtually gun-free societies in other countries?

renodoc · #13 10-03-2005, 02:42 PM

another view

MMMMMM · #14 10-03-2005, 02:56 PM

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but aren't there virtually gun-free societies in other countries?

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Fair question and perhaps there are. But if so, that is them and we is us;-)

Since we couldn't create an alcohol-free or drug-free society, why in the world would anyone think that we would be able to create a gun-free society?

etgryphon · #15 10-03-2005, 02:59 PM

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but aren't there virtually gun-free societies in other countries?

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I think that Japan is *relatively* gun-free, but the majority of Americans would have a heart attack if they had to live under their civil liberties. It is pretty oppressive over there. You think the Patriot Act is bad. It doesn't even hold a candle to Japan.

-Gryph

DVaut1 · #16 10-03-2005, 03:05 PM

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but aren't there virtually gun-free societies in other countries?

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why in the world would anyone think that we would be able to create a gun-free society?

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Didn't he just answer this? Certainly, such societies have been 'created' (although I'm hesitant to use the word 'created', but it's your wording, not mine). 'Gun-free' might be impractical - but there are certainly functioning societies that have very strict gun control (England, for example).

DVaut1 · #17 10-03-2005, 03:07 PM

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I think that Japan is *relatively* gun-free, but the majority of Americans would have a heart attack if they had to live under their civil liberties. It is pretty oppressive over there. You think the Patriot Act is bad. It doesn't even hold a candle to Japan.

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His comment wasn't about desirability or living conditions; only that it's not inconceivable to imagine 'gun-free' societies.

I've never been to Japan, but I have visited England, which is another place with very stringent gun control; and I didn't feel particularly oppressed. In fact, they certainly possessed some liberties I found enjoyable (very liberal laws regarding gaming) that I would love to import here.

etgryphon · #18 10-03-2005, 03:23 PM

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I think that Japan is *relatively* gun-free, but the majority of Americans would have a heart attack if they had to live under their civil liberties. It is pretty oppressive over there. You think the Patriot Act is bad. It doesn't even hold a candle to Japan.

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His comment wasn't about desirability or living conditions; only that it's not inconceivable to imagine 'gun-free' societies.

I've never been to Japan, but I have visited England, which is another place with very stringent gun control; and I didn't feel particularly oppressed. In fact, they certainly possessed some liberties I found enjoyable (very liberal laws regarding gaming) that I would love to import here.

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I am making the correlation that in countries that have increased gun control, also have the increase restrictions on liberty. Freedom comes at a cost. The governemtn needs to know that as well as you.

Lucky for you, you're probably not Brazilian and have a penchant for wearing jean jackets...

Your beloved England is at the top of the list for victims of violent crimes.

UN Study

-Gryph

DVaut1 · #19 10-03-2005, 03:34 PM

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I am making the correlation that in countries that have increased gun control, also have the increase restrictions on liberty. Freedom comes at a cost. The governemtn needs to know that as well as you.

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I don't think Johnny Drama's answer to Mx6's question had anything to do with this.

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Your beloved England is at the top of the list for victims of violent crimes.

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Again, not particularly relevant. I certainly didn't say England was non-violent; in fact, when I was there, I didn't tour the bad neighborhoods of some areas, and there's a reason for that.

Mx6 asked: 'can we create a gun-free society'; certainly, a 'gun free' society isn't practicle; yet some states (like England) have:

1) enacted strict gun control laws that have severly limited the availability of guns
2) these states continue to exist and function

MMMMMM · #20 10-03-2005, 03:35 PM

No, he didn't just answer that, DVaut1. And all you're doing is reiterating.

Just because another country manages to ban something (such as alcohol being banned in Iran, or maybe guns in the UK) does not imply that we can effectively do the same thing.

I'll try once again, just in case you might have some input of genuine substance to contribute.

Other societies are not identical to our society. Our society failed miserably at trying to ban alcohol and illicit drugs. Why then should we think that WE (not THEY) should be able to create a gun-free society?