Tips for learning to love the fish?>

[CountDuckula]

I was home sick the past few days, and occupied my time playing a bunch of freerolls (I didn't think my mental state was such that I should risk real money), trying to apply the lessons I've been learning from Harrington on Hold'Em (both volumes). As the suckouts kept coming, I started to find them just plain funny, and started to gain a better understanding of what was going on when they were coming later on in the tourney. Never did place ITM, but I came pretty close at times. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Anyway, I think when you see enough of them, you start to accept them as part of the game, and try to figure out how to take advantage of them.

On a semi-related topic, I heard a comment from Annie Duke (interview at WPT Aruba the other night) that hit me like a ton of bricks. She said, "If you don't get your hand caught in the cookie jar a few times, you're not playing good poker." I'd been priding myself on my tight play and wondering why I wasn't doing better. I knew intellectually that I was supposed to do some bluffing, but when I heard that, I realized that failing to steal blinds was a huge leak in my game (I wasn't doing it nearly enough), and once the light went on, I started to try out moves. And sometimes, I'd get caught bluffing or semi-bluffing, and lay the bad beat on someone else. I was the proud recipient of a "bad form" comment when I pushed (somewhere in the middle of a tourney) with a flush draw on the flop, got called, and ended up catching a runner-runner straight with my bottom card (IIRC, I was holding J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]5[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]). I didn't enlighten him, but between the probability that he'd fold and the probability that I'd hit my draw (and, presumably, win with it; I realized that if I happened to be up against a higher flush draw, I'd be in trouble), I had good reason to do what I did. I just happened to hit a draw I didn't even see. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

-Mike

[somapopper]

I really like the fish. A lot of them are really nice if you talk to them, and they are there to gamble, I can get kind of excited for them. I imagine some middle age guy sitting at home on his computer and saying "Well look at that! 10-2 really can win a big pot!"

Excepting when I'm running really badly, I'm even happy when they win a pot off me they had no business being in. I figure it's kinda like standing next to somebody when they hit a big jackpot off a slot machine.

I guess the more I play, the more I really don't care if I win the pot or not. I'm pretty darn sure I'm gonna get mine, and part of my job as a semi-pro is making sure the people who make the game profitable are having a good time. They aren't there because they think I have a God given right to their money. They're there because poker for them is about getting a good run of cards and having some fun. And frankly, that's a perfectly valid reason to play.

[Xhad]

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and, presumably, win with it; I realized that if I happened to be up against a higher flush draw, I'd be in trouble

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Usually being up against a bigger flush draw means Villain has no pair (and obviously doesn't have you dominated), therefore you will probably win if you pair either card. You're still worse off than when your opponent has a pair, but it's not the end of the world.

I didn't read all the posts, sorry if this has already been suggested. I always tell them exactly what I think of them. I don't get mad!! I just act like I am. About half the time they tell me they had good odds or "it was suited"--OR they end up getting mad themselves and rattled. Also, another thing I've started doing is calculating odds on cardplayer.com and you'd be pretty suprised how good 7 4 suited plays against other hands that you would normally deem to be a lock against such a hand. I've found that what I thought to be bad beats were often not that bad at all. (or atleast not as bad as I thought)

Interesting post though. My advice is always try to see what they were thinking so you know how to counteract next time.

1) A 10-1 shot wins one time in eleven, trouble is we subconsciously think it should be zero times!

2) Four 10-1 shots all playing together in the same hand? Equals one 2-1 shot (that one of them gets it). Suddenly its not such a surprise.

[Jeffage]

Not to be a jerk, but I've suffered worse beats than that in Atlantic City at much higher stakes. Never get upset, and always show good form at the table. Berating someone for drawing out is pretty disgraceful...the whole point of the game is beating people who are having fun trying to draw out. The few times they get there are why the games exist. Don't ruin it for them...they make the game worth playing and you don't want them quitting or playing better against you so they don't get embarassed again.

Jeff

[GoCubsGo]

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Any tips from more experienced players? My wife would be so much happier if my ranting stopped

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After a particularly nasty snap fest where I bit the wifes leg and drew blood I just blurted out "I can be a little bastard when I play this game".

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Did I read that correctly? Why do I have a picture of you lying on the ground clutching your wife's leg and foaming at the mouth?

[Kaeser]

I don't even like to think of them as fish. The whole mentality is so demeaning. These are just guys playing poker for different reasons then you are. It may not surprise you that most people don't care about hand selection or pot odds.

If that's so hard to understand then just take Mike Caro's route. Hope for your opponent to win that way you can celebrate when he does and if he loses you get the pot as compensation.

I'm also a longtime lurker.....

I have two suggestions that might help.

1. Play in a real casino for a bit more. While you are playing, make a point of interacting with the other players. While I was never a really heavy steamer, after I played cards with "actual people" my tilt when from every-so-often to virtually-non-existent. The key is to realise the people you are playing with aren't there to make money, they just want to have fun, and I think it's easier to accept this in person. Since you don't steam at B&M, I suspect this is why. Next time when you are on line, remember the silly drunk guy who sucked out on you. Maybe he sucked at poker, but he told some great jokes. It's the same guy, only now he's sitting in his tighty-whiteys at his computer. Have a giggle instead.

2. I recently started using PokerTraker. I love it. There is a feature which tells you over time, your +/- to individual players. After a loose player sucks out on you, if you realise you have made $X over time from him, it might make you feel better. They'll be exceptions of course, but I think over time you'll have tangible data telling you it's okay.

One last detail... I have ran in to quite a few people who get very upset when people play poor starting hands, and then win. It is usually greeted with "How can you play that?! Everyone knows that's awful!" These angry players seem to actually seem to believe someone has broken some carnal rule of poker. I often feel like reminding them that there is no actual rule against this. If you weren't allowed to play 72o, that hand would always automatically be declared dead, but this isn't the case.

[dibbs]

Look at your bankroll and realize it wouldn't be there without them.