3/6 6m quick little preflop thingy

[B Dids]

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21/13 players don't open limp much. Very suspicious. Limp. Raising wouldn't be bad, but if you choose that route then proceed cautiously.

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21/13 players who don't adjust well to 6 max limp the same hands UTG that they'd limp UTG in full games.

Limping here is the worst of the three options by a long shot IMO.

[jason_t]

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You are putting waaaay too much thought into this. Raise. Aside from the TAG you are describing a bunch of morons that will call your raise with crappier hands. Seems like a bad time to limp.

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You're not putting enough thought into this. A tight player who has been playing tight just limped UTG in a six-handed game. KQo doesn't play well multiway against people that are taking everything to showdown. A raise is not obvious here.

[Entity]

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21/13 players don't open limp much. Very suspicious. Limp. Raising wouldn't be bad, but if you choose that route then proceed cautiously.

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Limping here is the worst of the three options by a long shot IMO.

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You are so wrong on that point. Folding is the worst option by a longshot; it isn't close. If the blinds are loose limping allows you to keep the pot size small which is MORE likely to fold out UTG's range of hands when he somewhat misses, as it's less likely that he'll be getting odds to call with backdoor draws+overs, gutshots, and the like. When you combine that with the fact that he could (unlikely, but still could) be limping with a hand that has you in bad shape, raising becomes much less clear cut.

Rob

[spydog]

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You are putting waaaay too much thought into this. Raise. Aside from the TAG you are describing a bunch of morons that will call your raise with crappier hands. Seems like a bad time to limp.

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You're not putting enough thought into this. A tight player who has been playing tight just limped UTG in a six-handed game. KQo doesn't play well multiway against people that are taking everything to showdown. A raise is not obvious here.

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This is extremely weak thinking. You will have an equity edge against the field most of the time here, so you are raising for value. That doesn't mean that you have to autobet the flop if you miss. It means that if you hit the flop then you are likely ahead and can value bet dominated hands. If you miss the flop then you can check and see what the turn brings. Sometimes you won't make your hand until that turn card, but if you limp preflop then you might end up folding on the flop.

Let me ask you this....if your preflop raise put everyone exactly all-in, would you limp or raise? I'm pretty sure over the long haul you would make serious bank in this situation, no?

[jason_t]

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You're not putting enough thought into this. A tight player who has been playing tight just limped UTG in a six-handed game. KQo doesn't play well multiway against people that are taking everything to showdown. A raise is not obvious here.

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This is extremely weak thinking. You will have an equity edge against the field most of the time here, so you are raising for value. That doesn't mean that you have to autobet the flop if you miss. It means that if you hit the flop then you are likely ahead and can value bet dominated hands. If you miss the flop then you can check and see what the turn brings. Sometimes you won't make your hand until that turn card, but if you limp preflop then you might end up folding on the flop.

Let me ask you this....if your preflop raise put everyone exactly all-in, would you limp or raise? I'm pretty sure over the long haul you would make serious bank in this situation, no?

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I think you're vastly overestimating the equity edge that KQo has in a 4-way or 5-way pot, especially one where one of the players is tight. I also have very little fold equity postflop.

[spydog]

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You are putting waaaay too much thought into this. Raise. Aside from the TAG you are describing a bunch of morons that will call your raise with crappier hands. Seems like a bad time to limp.

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You're not putting enough thought into this. A tight player who has been playing tight just limped UTG in a six-handed game. KQo doesn't play well multiway against people that are taking everything to showdown. A raise is not obvious here.

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Another thing. If I'm UTG and I know that there are 2 LPP players to my left, why would I limp with QQ+? In that situation I'm likely to limp with some suited crap and low PPs, but it would be a huge mistake to limp with KK/AA unless there was a 60% PFR maniac at the table.

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the same hands UTG that they'd limp UTG in full games.

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21/13 players don't limp much in full games either. Then what Entity said. Then the added advantage of concealing the strength of your hand and getting more action if a K or Q hits.

Like I said though, raising probably wouldn't be too wrong, but, ironically, it might make the hand HARDER to play.

[jason_t]

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Another thing. If I'm UTG and I know that there are 2 LPP players to my left, why would I limp with QQ+? In that situation I'm likely to limp with some suited crap and low PPs, but it would be a huge mistake to limp with KK/AA unless there was a 60% PFR maniac at the table.

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I said he was tight; I didn't say he was observant or thinking.

[gaming_mouse]

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If both of the blinds are loose and bad, I probably limp;

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Rob,

can you explain this? i know that KQo is not a great hand multiway. but if the blinds are calling here with crap, aren't you happy to exploit your equity edge (especially since you have position)?

[B Dids]

My thought was that I want to raise because I want a shot at getting the blinds to fold and being 3-way rather than likely 5-way. I agree that if I think the blinds are very likely to call a raise that limping is bad.