question for fellow SSHE readers

I'm a "n00b" myself, and am playing microlimits as I read/learn SSHE. It is frustrating to play tightly, but I found that until I knew what I was doing postflop, playing even a little loosely preflop just got me into big trouble. Now that I'm getting better (meaning I have a better handle on how to play post-flop based on the flop and the actions/reads of others), I find that I can play more hands, which is of course less boring.

...plus I now spend my "fold time" more productively, watching my fellow players and trying to identify their mistakes. Huge learning tool!

BTW....KXs all depends on position and what happens up front. Big looser if you play it in the wrong place, or don't lay it down when you should later.

[Greg J]

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I'm a "n00b" myself, and am playing microlimits as I read/learn SSHE. It is frustrating to play tightly, but I found that until I knew what I was doing postflop, playing even a little loosely preflop just got me into big trouble. Now that I'm getting better (meaning I have a better handle on how to play post-flop based on the flop and the actions/reads of others), I find that I can play more hands, which is of course less boring.

...plus I now spend my "fold time" more productively, watching my fellow players and trying to identify their mistakes. Huge learning tool!

BTW....KXs all depends on position and what happens up front. Big looser if you play it in the wrong place, or don't lay it down when you should later.

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This is probably the best second post I've ever read. WTF is wrong with you?!? Why aren't you asking something stupid, or complaining about how you can't beat the bad players? [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Thanks!

Does this mean you will take it easy on me if I get mouthy and start asking dumb questions later? [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

[turaho]

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I read the boards and listen to suggestions from the more experienced players, but I don't like to just take advice because someone says so. When someone says things like 'you will be ahead here well more often than 10% of the time', I think 'why?' 'how do you figure that?' 'are you just pulling numbers out of your butt?'

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When respected posters quote percentages like that, they're often drawing from the experience of playing thousands of hands with similar players. Yes, there's an element of pulling numbers out of your butt, but I think the greatest thing about these boards is the incredible amount of experience that people have around here. Feel free to take it with a grain of salt.

The above post is very good. The "hand quizes" section also has quite a few players seeing the flop and continuing on. Something that passed through my mind while reading this thread we all play online, but (with no experience here) I'd think that brick and mortar games, you might have a whole table going to the postflop cards. or, i could be way off. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

In terms of how I use the charts, I have rough guidelines in my head that change for every table and every player depending on how tight/loose they are, and I'll use the book to answer any questions I have (usually after the fact).

[Felipe]

Stars is so loose i can play J7s and Q8s profitably for one bet from EP. I won't tough A8s and K8s or below from EP, but I will from MP. I'll usually limp any two suited 10 or higher from any position at a 'typical' table - 5-6 seeing the flop & few raises.

[Jimmy The Fish]

I must be sitting at the wrong Stars tables.

I generally use the "Plrs/Flop" column to find the tables with the loosest players; but after my first 11K hands at .25/.50, my actual ASF% is just over 36%.

I wonder if the "loose" players are subconsciously influenced by the actions of the players in front of them. For example, two loose players have K3o in middle position. One sees everyone limp in front of him, while the other sees everyone fold. It seems like the loose player will limp more readily into a multiway hand, despite the fact that his already-miniscule odds to win are dropping with each caller.

Ultimately, I'm wondering whether playing a TAG style causes the fish to tighten up in their preflop decisions. I don't have any empirical evidence to back this theory up; but it would explain why I'm seeing tighter tables. And it might suggest that the occasional loose call could pay off in future EV.

[zephed]

If I were to play .5/1 now, I'd play as loose as possible.

They make so many basic mistakes and I want to be there postflop to take advantage.

I haven't used a preflop hand chart since reading SSHE.

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Ultimately, I'm wondering whether playing a TAG style causes the fish to tighten up in their preflop decisions. I don't have any empirical evidence to back this theory up; but it would explain why I'm seeing tighter tables. And it might suggest that the occasional loose call could pay off in future EV.

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I think even at party .5/1 tables sooner or later the fish catch on to whos taking their money and play more cautiously when you're in the pot. I was up ~ 20BB at a table yesterday when this occured:

Party Poker 0.50/1 Hold'em (10 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx

Preflop: Hero is UTG+2 with 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
<font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, Hero calls, MP1 calls, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, MP3 calls, <font color="#666666">3 folds</font>, BB checks.

Flop: (4.50 SB) 5[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(4 players)</font>
BB checks, Hero checks, <font color="#CC3333">MP1 bets</font>, MP3 calls, BB folds, Hero calls.

Turn: (3.75 BB) 6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
Hero checks, <font color="#CC3333">MP1 bets</font>, MP3 calls, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, MP1 folds, MP3 folds.

Final Pot: 7.75 BB

When I started on this table I don't think these two players would have folded here.

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They make so many basic mistakes and I want to be there postflop to take advantage.

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I think zephed hits the nail on the head here.....we all agree the biggest fish mistakes happen after the flop, and if you're at a point of playing near-perfect postflop (which I'm not yet), it would be advantageous to be in more flops than usual, in able to exploit those mistakes. This also assumes you're astute enough to know if/when your own looseness is starting to bear down on your EV.