How to play AK OOP against differing opponents - Page 2

gaming_mouse · #11 09-12-2005, 10:47 PM

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He's facing the calling station with two cold. The TAG may fold his weak holding. This is not a good board to attempt to extract two bets on the turn from marginal holdings.

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okay, we just have different interpretations of the degree of calling-stationess. i think that with more specific reads either you or joker could be right.

jason_t · #12 09-12-2005, 10:49 PM

Unless the calling station is mentally retarded, I don't see the value in facing him with 2 BB cold in a 7.5 BB pot when he is drawing to at best four outs and is possibly drawing completely dead. And again, I think this is a bad board to attempt a check/raise on and expect to be called down on.

It would require an awfully strong read for me to attempt this.

gaming_mouse · #13 09-12-2005, 10:58 PM

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Unless the calling station is mentally retarded, I don't see the value in facing him with 2 BB cold in a 7.5 BB pot when he is drawing to at best four outs and is possibly drawing completely dead. And again, I think this is a bad board to attempt a check/raise on and expect to be called down on.

It would require an awfully strong read for me to attempt this.

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my read of calling station here is: calls with any A for sure, any gutshot, and possibly any K. this kind of player is not that rare IMO.

Catt · #14 09-12-2005, 10:59 PM

I really think this is a mistake here. By going fro the C/R you give the TAG two terrible (for you) options: (1) checking the turn; and (2) folding to a C/R. If he is a TAG and calling this flop then he has one of three hand groupings, either a draw, or a weakish made hand, or a pretty strong hand. If he has a draw, there's a great chance he checks it through (note that the [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] means even if he has a weakish made hand, he could have picked up a draw to the flush - inspipring him to check even more often); if he has a weakish made hand, there's a chance you allow him to lay down on the turn facing the C/R from the PFR on this broadway board; if he has a strong hand, you may very well have missed the chance to bet-3-bet. Add to this the fact that you've faced a weak player with calling two cold, I think this C/R is much less attractive then just leading the turn. If there's been a number of hands where you raised PF, bet the flop OOP, and then check-folded the turn, I can get a bit more comfortable with the C/R -- but I think by and large you're going to be much better off leading here then C/Ring in most circumstances.

shant · #15 09-12-2005, 11:02 PM

Switch TAG to LAG and I think it's better but I still don't understand facing the guy in the middle with 2 cold.

What does a TAG limp with preflop in MP2 after one limper that he'll bet when checked to here? I don't think it's obvious he'll bet more then 60% of the time. If he called the flop with a 5-outer hand or a gutshot, he'll take the free card.

Jake (The Snake) · #16 09-12-2005, 11:07 PM

I prefer just betting the turn for the same reasons as everyone else, but the c/r is probably fine if you haven't done it in a while.

jason_t · #17 09-12-2005, 11:19 PM

There aren't many As left in the deck, I think he might be able to find a fold with a no-pair gutshot and possibly even a K. He's almost surely folding a Q or 66 here. It would take a strong read to convince me otherwise.

bakku · #18 09-12-2005, 11:27 PM

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The TAG is going to bet when checked to most of the time, with hands that he'll call the flop with. If he had a strong draw that's worth checking the turn, I'd think he'd raise the flop.

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raising this flop with a draw would be retarded

private joker · #19 09-13-2005, 12:28 AM

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raising this flop with a draw would be retarded

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Welcome to 5/10 full.

jason_t · #20 09-13-2005, 01:26 AM

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[I]f he has a strong hand, you may very well have missed the chance to bet-3-bet

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This is great point; I got so caught up in explaining why I think the check/raise is likely to miss value, I forgot to point out why a different line is likely to extract more. Obviously if they fold to the turn check/raise but would have called down if Hero didn't check/raise then Hero is missing value. But if one of them has a weaker monster, we're clearly missing value because a check/raise on that board from a pfr is extremely scary and will probably halt all action.