Cowboys Out Of Position, Scary Board - Page 2

Dommer · #11 09-09-2005, 03:33 AM

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HIs action isnt consistent with a flush. Obviously seeing the river helps though.

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Hrm I guess if he's aggressive he may have semi bluffed the flop, but that's not 100%. Other than that it's consistent with a flush. The only thing that makes it totally screwy is the river check. I still think he tried to make some weird move on the turn... or maybe he just had no idea what he was doing. That's only after seeing the river that I can say that though.

Dommer · #12 09-09-2005, 03:35 AM

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Five bucks says villain was looking for a cheap showdown with AJ AQ probably with a spade. I lead this river for 1/2 pot every time and call most reasonable raises without a rediculous read.

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Ahh I didn't think of that... that makes sense. I wish he'd post the results already.

NYCNative · #13 09-09-2005, 03:49 AM

My thoughts on this hand as it developed:

1) I did not want to CB the flop being OOP with the Ace showing. A raise would have been a bad thing whereas if villain made a smallish bet that seemed weak, I could either call or even check-raise there.

2) I had to lead after I tripped up obviously even though it put a three-flush on the board. I felt the raise from villain was a flush and he was happy to take the free turn (which makes my lack of a CB look bad) or he was a bigger donk than I thought and he had something like KQ.

We both had a lot of money left at this point despite the pot size and I decided that I would check-call because I would have hated calling a raise even though I would have felt obligated to since villain could make that move with a few non-flush things including bluffs.

I decided that playing it passively was the best option because I could manage the pot size a little better even though I was out of position. This would limit my win if I was ahead but also limit my loss if I wasn't.

I don't know what I would have done had villain pushed the river, I suspect call it and hate it.

NYCNative · #14 09-09-2005, 03:58 AM

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Ahh I didn't think of that... that makes sense. I wish he'd post the results already.

[/ QUOTE ]Villain had A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].

I wonder why it seems obvious to some that he would hold this or something similar since I couldn't imagine anyone calling my large PF reraise and then NOT betting that flop when it was checked to them with that holding.

To me, the only valid reasons to chech after me on the flop is they were on the flush draw and happy to get the free card or they had a smaller PP (something like like Jacks) and the Ace scared him just as much.

When he raised me on my flop bet, I knew that smaller pockets was less likely.

Really, who doesn't bet that flop holding an Ace?

Malachii · #15 09-09-2005, 04:40 AM

Hey NYC,

I don't understand why you're so passive here on the turn. It's unlikely he has the flush, and if he does you have a solid redraw. I would push the turn.

NYCNative · #16 09-09-2005, 04:42 AM

I'm passive on the turn because I think there's a good shot I'm a 3-to-1 dog at that point praying that the board pairs up. His betting was not inconsistant with such a holding.

Malachii · #17 09-09-2005, 04:48 AM

I understand that, but I don't think that him having a flush here is consistent him raising under the gun and then calling a big reraise. Is it possible that he has a flush here? Yes. But I think it's unlikely, and I think there a lot of hands that will call a push here that you have crushed.

NYCNative · #18 09-09-2005, 05:01 AM

It would not have surprised me to see him turn over Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] given what I have seen happen at these levels. If villain is checking the river, is he calling a turn push anyway? Probably not. I have FE if I'm ahead but zero if I'm behind. At least if I just call the best I can possibly boat up on the river and feel a LOT better about further investments into this pot.

I am still completely confused why he checked the flop.

Allinlife · #19 09-09-2005, 06:54 AM

I think 3 betting turn is pretty bad, because you pretty much fold everything you have beat against solid players. stacks are pretty deep relatively to the pot so I think it would be a mistake here.

I think only line to take is to call the turn raise then block/value river, though I might start crying if my blockbet gets raised.. I really don't see anything but a flush raising a river block bet however.

He checked behind the flop because flop check is pretty suspicious after preflop reraise, and didn't want to get check raised off his draw. I'd check behind in that spot time to time.

KowCiller · #20 09-09-2005, 09:35 AM

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I am still completely confused why he checked the flop.

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Why does his flop check confuse you so much? I think your flop check was much worse than his flop check (regardless of how it turned out) After you fail to cb, why would he fire at the pot when he's likely got you drawing to 2 outs and could extract more from you later? If you don't spike your king, he makes more off you by checking the flop than betting it.

FWIW I think his turn raise is a bit suspect, but I guess it does force you to give up your equity if you have TT-QQ with a [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]. However, if you were slowplaying AA on the flop he's spewing, and if you have KK being weak, you just caught up.

KoW