J8s 20-40 bb - Page 2

Rick Nebiolo · #11 09-09-2005, 01:02 AM

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i have Jh8h in the bb in a very good so cal 20-40 live game. utg a loose passive old lady raises, she gets 3 callers, i call. 5 of us.

the flop is 9s8d4h. i check, utg bets, 2 callers (loose random bad), i call.

the turn is the Kh. i check, utg bets, 2 caller, i checkraise.

comments?

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I won't look at the other responses yet although I'm anxious to see wwhat 2+2 knob polishing champion lmd thinks.

Preflop call is fine this time [img]/images/graemlins/smirk.gif[/img]

Betting the flop should be considered. If passive LOL has overpair she raises and cleans out your outs (or if her raise is reraised you let go, if cold called you take one off). If LOL calls you are probably against big overcards. Given you didn't raise, it's an easy call.

I'd just call on the turn. You've picked up the heart draw but your two pair outs aren't that strong. I'd estimate you have about 10 outs since a heart that pairs the board will be a little dangerous. These means you aren't getting odds on your checkraise and have to assume that sometimes you will be three bet.

Leading the turn should be considered.

~ Rick

Rick Nebiolo · #12 09-09-2005, 01:04 AM

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Oops. Didn't realize you picked up a draw. Disregard comments.

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Does this count as a strategy post?

~ Rick

Rick Nebiolo · #13 09-09-2005, 01:07 AM

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the only hands she's 3 betting the turn with here is a set. she would probably fold QQ and TT but maybe not all the time.

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Agree about the set but I can't see a loose passive folding QQ or TT.

~ Rick

Steve Giufre · #14 09-09-2005, 01:08 AM

I've thought about it and I think its expert.

Rick Nebiolo · #15 09-09-2005, 01:10 AM

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you have like 1/2 the deck to draw to

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Where's the 1/2 deck? Is this a stripped deck game?

~ Rick

oreogod · #16 09-09-2005, 01:15 AM

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i think the flop play is a significant error. i think the play is to bet the flop.

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I agree. As it is, I like the turn.

Steve Giufre · #17 09-09-2005, 01:20 AM

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I'm kind of surprised you posted this, seems standard.

You might be ahead (doubtful but who knows), you have like 1/2 the deck to draw to, and even if nobody folds a better hand the raise probably has value just in due to how many players are in the hand.

I think the interesting part will be the river card, and what happens on the river. Eagerly awaiting...

lf

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I dont think the river will be that interesting. Anybody who calls the turn here without a draw is going to call one more bet on the river. I dont see anybody laying down a K, or QQ to a river bet. If UTG folds and Mike decides to make a thin value bet VS one of the limpers thats another story. If UTG calls and the limpers fold, it seems close, but I would strongly consider checking, since she would probably check a lot of better hands behind there.

mike l. · #18 09-09-2005, 01:23 AM

"If UTG folds and Mike decides to make a thin value bet VS one of the limpers thats another story."

just for the record i did not play this hand i just wanted to see if it tainted the replies to say that i did. i would not have checkraised the turn here although i used to all the time. im still trying to decide if it's an expert play or garbage.

DpR · #19 09-09-2005, 01:23 AM

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i have Jh8h in the bb in a very good so cal 20-40 live game. utg a loose passive old lady raises, she gets 3 callers, i call. 5 of us.

the flop is 9s8d4h. i check, utg bets, 2 callers (loose random bad), i call.

the turn is the Kh. i check, utg bets, 2 caller, i checkraise.

comments?

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I don't think I can call the turn c'r wrong, but I think calling is better. I think the chance you are good at the turn are low. I would take "loose passive" lady to not bet the turn with a hand she is not betting a lot of rivers here. You are in perfect position to check raise this river if you hit rather than putting the money in on the turn. You can probably get the check raise in on the heart or 8, maybe not the J.

I like leading this flop too.

CardSharpCook · #20 09-09-2005, 02:02 AM

I prefer waiting 'til you hit. Why? You're in perfect position to get two bets on the river if you hit. The Aggressor in this hand is on your immediate left. She has no reason to believe her AA/KK/AK, whatever this passive UTG player has, is no good. She'll bet an 8 river and she'll probably bet a heart river (no one gives credit to running flush draws). If she does this, it is very likely you'll get at least some of the field for 2 river bets. Getting them for 2 river bets is more valuable than getting them for 2 turn bets because more of the river bets are coming to you.