Arieh and Video Poker

[Tapin]

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VP is not a game like BJ where you can learn perfect strategy in an hour.

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Care to point out why this either isn't perfect strategy or couldn't be learned in an hour?

I learned it in about two hours, but I'm slow that way -- are you saying it's not perfect strategy for deuces wild full-pay machines?

[Jaquen H'gar]

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... I did not think it was possible for slots or video poker to be +EV but when the progressives reach a certain level is + EV to get a team and play every machine.

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Video poker is one of the weapons in the armament of an advantage player, along with card counting, 1 and 3 card poker, etc.

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Can you clarify this a bit for those games? Are you just referring to small -EV vs. comp gains?

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Clarification with examples for a typical serious mid-level part-time player(Your mileage may vary based on your betting levels):
VP is +EV ($5-25/hr)but smaller EV than say another game but the comps from VP easily FAR exceed other games. (airfare reimbursement, free rooms and suites, free gourment meals, large cash coupons).

Card counting/shuffle tracking is great EV but more of a hit n run game. EV is better with counting ($75-150/hr); longevity and comps better with shuffle tracking ($50-100/hr).

1 and 3 card poker is massive EV in the right situation ($300-1000/hr). Unfortunately, the right situations are drying up as casinos become more wary.

Poker is decent EV ($25-75/hr) with low variance but piss for comps.

[KingMedicine]

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VP is not a game like BJ where you can learn perfect strategy in an hour.

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Care to point out why this either isn't perfect strategy or couldn't be learned in an hour?

I learned it in about two hours, but I'm slow that way -- are you saying it's not perfect strategy for deuces wild full-pay machines?

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without spending a lot of time looking at it for more than a couple minutes, that link you provided for dueces wild looks pretty good. most basic strategies omit penalty cards altogether and this link, while maybe not exhausting all possibilities (and maybe it is, im not sure), does address penalty cards and might be perfect. from looking at this, id be surprised if someone, anyone, could get it down perfectly within a couple (or even 10) hours so that they could be able to use it and play 1000 hands an hour or at whatever top speed for them is.
when you say that you learned it within 2 hours are you saying you learned it and have used it in actual casino play and feel confident that youre not making any errors?

if so, nice work. it took me a lot longer to master the 4 games ive mastered than 2 hours a pop. seriously, it probably took me close to 100 hours to learn EACH game.
but i probably spent more time than is necessary for some people to get it down.

my whole point in posting in this thread is that VP is a good game, at least in some forms. i hate it when people talk abotu VP as if it were a slot machine because its not. there is a level of skill involved and it can be EV+ and if youre looking for a casino game to play if you go to a casino with your friends who dont play poker, VP is your answer to not losing (at least in theory).

[BarronVangorToth]

Excellently put, Jaquen, while I personally am not interested in that facet of gambling for myself, I know there is merit to those that do IF they do it properly.

Great posts to illustrate.

Barron Vangor Toth
BarronVangorToth.com

[wheelz]

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if you want me to give you examples of likely common mistakes people that dont know the game perfectly make and show you how these seemingly minor errors can make a EV+ game an EV- game, i can, but this isnt a VP forum and i think ive written enough about it today.

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do it anyways please. i'm interested.

[Alex/Mugaaz]

This post needs to be moved to a different forum. There is a rule that nothing meaningful or informative is allowed in the WPT forum. I thought you people knew that. Shame on you all.

I agree. When I made the original post, I was hoping that responders might come up speculations and rumors about the subject's gambling activities outside poker. Colorful stories similar to TJ Cloutier's craps gambling, Ted Forrest's and Huck Seed's proposition bets, Doyle Brunson's golfing bets, Archie Karas's high-stakes adventures at pool and craps,etc.

But it has degenerated into a serious gambling theory thread with meaningful and informative discussions supported by deep and serious thinking about theory and mathematics. This would have been an exciting and controversial thread that is Enquirer Magazine-like. But the serious posters messed it up.

Goes to show how unpredictable trolling can be. I hope Mat Sklansky deletes this thread forever. It is a miserable failure. [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img]

[KingMedicine]

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if you want me to give you examples of likely common mistakes people that dont know the game perfectly make and show you how these seemingly minor errors can make a EV+ game an EV- game, i can, but this isnt a VP forum and i think ive written enough about it today.

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do it anyways please. i'm interested.

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OK, a couple quick ones:

in Double Double Bonus Poker:

If dealt - Ks 10s 8d 7c 2s - you hold Ks10s2s.
If dealt - Ks 9s 8d 7c 2s - you hold Ks only.

If dealt - AA992 - you keep AA.
If dealt - KK992 - you keep KK99.

similarly:

If dealt AAA88 - Keep AAA (throw 88)
If dealt KKK88 - Keep all.

(Keeping AAA88 is one of the most expensive errors a player can make in Dbl Dbl Bonus.)

In Jacks or Better if youre dealt 10s 9d 7c 6d 2h - throw all 5.
If youre dealt the same 5 cards in Double Double Bonus - Keep 10 9 7 6.