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#12
09-06-2005, 03:57 PM
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Re: How bad is this?
[ QUOTE ]
i'd fold pre-flop. if i thought this were the kind of guy who'd fold to a reraise, i might reraise, but i would very rarely call. i think it's pretty standard with 76o or 76c once you check and he bets that big. you're in a much trickier spot if he bets a more normal 800-900. then the c/r a-i is looking pretty gigantic. [/ QUOTE ] i'm not a huge fan of folding preflop here with either hand, but particularly not 76c, i dunno, i've got like 30bb, and it's not like either hand is that terrible getting 3-1, no? i'm willing to learn though. i think with a more normal bet, just calling gets increasingly more correct, i mean, you're getting 2.5-1 or so immediate odds on draw with 13 outs for just the turn, etc, etc. factor in the fact that if he in fact has a big pair or whatnot, he's likely to pay off huge when you hit. w.r.t. the guy who says hero's only 33% likely to hit, you should note that 76c is like 56% to win against non club holding aces here. clearly there's a large strength gap between 76c and 76o here. how big and how that changes the line is interesting to me. to answer another question, there hadn't been enough action involving this player while he has a reasonable stack (and since he's opened up) to know if he's continuation betting frequently in spots like this. citanul 
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#13
09-06-2005, 03:59 PM
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Re: How bad is this?
[ QUOTE ]
clearly there's a large strength gap between 76c and 76o here. how big and how that changes the line is interesting to me. [/ QUOTE ] You go from a big dog to a slight favorite. Of course there's a huge gap. 76o: check fold 76c: check push
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#14
09-06-2005, 04:23 PM
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Re: How bad is this?
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] i'd fold pre-flop. if i thought this were the kind of guy who'd fold to a reraise, i might reraise, but i would very rarely call. i think it's pretty standard with 76o or 76c once you check and he bets that big. you're in a much trickier spot if he bets a more normal 800-900. then the c/r a-i is looking pretty gigantic. [/ QUOTE ] i'm not a huge fan of folding preflop here with either hand, but particularly not 76c, i dunno, i've got like 30bb, and it's not like either hand is that terrible getting 3-1, no? i'm willing to learn though. i think with a more normal bet, just calling gets increasingly more correct, i mean, you're getting 2.5-1 or so immediate odds on draw with 13 outs for just the turn, etc, etc. factor in the fact that if he in fact has a big pair or whatnot, he's likely to pay off huge when you hit. w.r.t. the guy who says hero's only 33% likely to hit, you should note that 76c is like 56% to win against non club holding aces here. clearly there's a large strength gap between 76c and 76o here. how big and how that changes the line is interesting to me. to answer another question, there hadn't been enough action involving this player while he has a reasonable stack (and since he's opened up) to know if he's continuation betting frequently in spots like this. citanul [/ QUOTE ] An early position Min raise to me is a high PP like 80% of the time to me. You don't give buy in, but unless it's like a 50+5, thats what I think I have to put him on. That being said... I actually like the call PF, especially if this guy's been opening a lot of pots. It shows you're willing to defend, even if you have to check/fold the flop. Does anyone like betting out the flop? Like 1/3 to 1/2 the pot? I think this would slow down villian such that he might just call and then you can re-evaluate on the turn, especially if you hit your hand villian won't put you on it. I think the big decision comes when he pushes back at you. With 76c I think I'm calling a push, as you said you're actually ahead of basically his entire range. With 76 I'm laying it down. edit: I forgot to mention. One reason I wouldn't like pushing here as much is that we're assuming a lot of the time villian will fold, which means you're gonna lose those chips. That is, you don't give yourself a chance to make a monster and stack him. It's also why I like betting out with 76c a lot more than 76, as you're more likely to make a monster. This becomes increasingly the case if my read on villian is correct on him having a high PP, or at least something like AQ or AK that might even call on this flop. That is, he's gonna call your push here a lot of the time, and you lose a lot of the value of your push (in that you're basically hoping for a fold).
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#15
09-06-2005, 04:33 PM
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Re: How bad is this?
your lucky he bet big on the flop. I take a lead then 3bet push line a lot here, since if he bets like 700, a push is too big a raise, but a raise leaves your hands tied on the turn. Given that he bet that much a push is good with 67s or 67o.
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#16
09-06-2005, 04:34 PM
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Re: How bad is this?
[ QUOTE ]
An early position Min raise to me is a high PP like 80% of the time to me. You don't give buy in, but unless it's like a 50+5, thats what I think I have to put him on. [/ QUOTE ] It was a party 100+9, and I think I specified that it was a cutoff raise. citanul
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#17
09-06-2005, 04:36 PM
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Re: How bad is this?
[ QUOTE ]
your lucky he bet big on the flop. I take a lead then 3bet push line a lot here, since if he bets like 700, a push is too big a raise, but a raise leaves your hands tied on the turn. Given that he bet that much a push is good with 67s or 67o. [/ QUOTE ] I'm guessing you call a min raise here preflop 100% ish of the time? Do you begin changing your default line from bet 3-bet to checkraise when your stack gets down to say 5kish?
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#18
09-06-2005, 04:39 PM
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Re: How bad is this?
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] An early position Min raise to me is a high PP like 80% of the time to me. You don't give buy in, but unless it's like a 50+5, thats what I think I have to put him on. [/ QUOTE ] It was a party 100+9, and I think I specified that it was a cutoff raise. citanul [/ QUOTE ] My bad, I can't read. Nevertheless, what else minraises here? I don't have much experiance at the 100+9 level, but I think my point is still pretty valid.
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#19
09-06-2005, 04:39 PM
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Re: How bad is this?
[ QUOTE ]
your lucky he bet big on the flop. I take a lead then 3bet push line a lot here, since if he bets like 700, a push is too big a raise, but a raise leaves your hands tied on the turn. Given that he bet that much a push is good with 67s or 67o. [/ QUOTE ] I don't leading here because you're in a terrible spot when he calls the flop and the turn blanks off. Do you lead again? Do you check? What if he bets big after you check the turn?
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#20
09-06-2005, 04:43 PM
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Re: How bad is this?
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] your lucky he bet big on the flop. I take a lead then 3bet push line a lot here, since if he bets like 700, a push is too big a raise, but a raise leaves your hands tied on the turn. Given that he bet that much a push is good with 67s or 67o. [/ QUOTE ] I don't leading here because you're in a terrible spot when he calls the flop and the turn blanks off. Do you lead again? Do you check? What if he bets big after you check the turn? [/ QUOTE ] I think I find myself 2/3 Potting it on the turn. Though this may not be the best move, and I'm too lazy to figure out exactly how much of my stack that is... I think a lot of the time villian will buy you representing a good hand enough that he will fold.
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