A Hand From TOP

[TheHammer24]

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An off color 69 or J may earn a bet fold from me

[/ QUOTE ] That's what I said. I said check/folding is safe though. If your opponent isn't capable of semi-bluffing again you definitely bet/fold this. However, at the higher limits, as Sklansky's examples commonly come from, your opponents may be capable of that.

I think since this hand came from the chapter on semi bluffing you are tainted into believing Villian is Semi Bluffing

[TheHammer24]

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half the deck hurts you.

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Half the deck scares me, sort of. How could half the deck hurt me?

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You're correct, it just scares you. But half the deck makes this hand incredible difficult to play

[fizzleboink]

I don't see how playing "safe" is going to maximize EV.

The thing is Sklansky himself states that another semi-bluff on the turn here is something most players won't do. To be honest I completely forgot that it was the chapter on semi-bluffing. I simply made a mental note to come back to that hand later and post it.

I 3-bet and bet almost any turn in most circumstances here, as I am on the more aggressive side.

I gave my reasoning for the bet-fold on the turn (you don't know what kind of draw the opponent has, you don't risk giving a free card, you lose less when behind), as I thought check-fold was clearly not correct and check-calling makes us lose more when behind and win less when ahaed.

[fizzleboink]

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You're correct, it just scares you. But half the deck makes this hand incredible difficult to play

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All the more reason to discuss this. [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

[TheHammer24]

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I don't see how playing "safe" is going to maximize EV.

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I offered the safe caveat after stating what I thought was correct. The caveat implied that the decision was close and you did not lose much EV in my opinion by folding.


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I 3-bet and bet almost any turn in most circumstances here, as I am on the more aggressive side.

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That is absolutely spewing

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I gave my reasoning for the bet-fold on the turn (you don't know what kind of draw the opponent has, you don't risk giving a free card, you lose less when behind)

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I don't think you understand, that this is not necessarily a semi-bluff. Your opponents hand range and flop raise makes you behind a lot of the time. You can't just always bet in these situations thinking to yourself that 1 BB is just expendable.

[fizzleboink]

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I offered the safe caveat after stating what I thought was correct. The caveat implied that the decision was close and you did not lose much EV in my opinion by folding.


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Allright I'll take that as I don't know how much you're giving up here.

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That is absolutely spewing


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Just curious, would you 3-bet if you had KT?

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I don't think you understand, that this is not necessarily a semi-bluff. Your opponents hand range and flop raise makes you behind a lot of the time. You can't just always bet in these situations thinking to yourself that 1 BB is just expendable.

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We don't know the opponents hand range which I admit hurts the discussion.

You honestly think you're behind most of the time when you get raised on a draw heavy flop, heads up, with top pair good kicker?

I don't think the 1 BB is expendable, I'm betting the turn for value. He hits his draw on the turn barely 20% of the time. He could very well have top pair with a worse kicker or a PP lower than a T. He might even just have overcards.

[TheHammer24]

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I offered the safe caveat after stating what I thought was correct. The caveat implied that the decision was close and you did not lose much EV in my opinion by folding.


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Allright I'll take that as I don't know how much you're giving up here.

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That is absolutely spewing


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Just curious, would you 3-bet if you had KT?

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I don't think you understand, that this is not necessarily a semi-bluff. Your opponents hand range and flop raise makes you behind a lot of the time. You can't just always bet in these situations thinking to yourself that 1 BB is just expendable.

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We don't know the opponents hand range which I admit hurts the discussion.

You honestly think you're behind most of the time when you get raised on a draw heavy flop, heads up, with top pair good kicker?

I don't think the 1 BB is expendable, I'm betting the turn for value. He hits his draw on the turn barely 20% of the time. He could very well have top pair with a worse kicker or a PP lower than a T. He might even just have overcards.

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