Crying call when I "know" I am beaten? (10/20 in HUGE pot) - Page 2

marand · #11 09-02-2005, 10:18 AM

[ QUOTE ]
CO is a LAG
UTG is unknown (New to the table and not enough stats on him to be meaningful)

Party Poker 10/20 Hold'em (6 max, 6 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is Button with K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
UTG calls, MP calls, CO calls, Hero raises, 1 fold, BB calls, UTG calls, MP calls, CO calls.

Flop: (10.50 SB) 2[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 5[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (5 players)
BB checks, UTG bets, MP folds, CO calls, Hero raises, BB folds, UTG calls, CO calls.

Turn: (8.25 BB) 2[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (3 players)
UTG checks, CO checks, Hero bets, UTG raises, CO calls, Hero 3-bets, UTG calls, CO calls.

River: (17.25 BB) J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (3 players)
UTG checks, CO checks, Hero bets, UTG calls, CO raises, Hero calls, UTG folds.

Final Pot: 22.25 BB

Would you play it any other way on any street?
What about the river call? Almost always beaten, but will I win it 5% of the time?

[/ QUOTE ]

CO shows [Js, Th] and MHIG.
Was it a ch/r for value?
He cannot think he will fold out a better hand... right?
Or maybe it just was "Yes, I finally hit my flush, now lets trap him.".

I think he must have thought that his hand was best and it was a ch/r for value, but it almost worked as a bluff against me [img]/images/graemlins/crazy.gif[/img]

Reminder to self, never ever fold against a LAG getting 20:1 odds on the river [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

gildwulf · #12 09-02-2005, 10:21 AM

I don't see how you could possibly fold this on the river. Well-played.

colgin · #13 09-02-2005, 10:51 AM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
CO is a LAG
UTG is unknown (New to the table and not enough stats on him to be meaningful)

Party Poker 10/20 Hold'em (6 max, 6 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is Button with K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
UTG calls, MP calls, CO calls, Hero raises, 1 fold, BB calls, UTG calls, MP calls, CO calls.

Flop: (10.50 SB) 2[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 5[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (5 players)
BB checks, UTG bets, MP folds, CO calls, Hero raises, BB folds, UTG calls, CO calls.

Turn: (8.25 BB) 2[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (3 players)
UTG checks, CO checks, Hero bets, UTG raises, CO calls, Hero 3-bets, UTG calls, CO calls.

River: (17.25 BB) J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (3 players)
UTG checks, CO checks, Hero bets, UTG calls, CO raises, Hero calls, UTG folds.

Final Pot: 22.25 BB

Would you play it any other way on any street?
What about the river call? Almost always beaten, but will I win it 5% of the time?

[/ QUOTE ]

CO shows [Js, Th] and MHIG.
Was it a ch/r for value?
He cannot think he will fold out a better hand... right?
Or maybe it just was "Yes, I finally hit my flush, now lets trap him.".

I think he must have thought that his hand was best and it was a ch/r for value, but it almost worked as a bluff against me [img]/images/graemlins/crazy.gif[/img]

Reminder to self, never ever fold against a LAG getting 20:1 odds on the river [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

[/ QUOTE ]

What part of your own description that he is a LAG didn't you understand. Even before I read the results I thought this was like an incredibly easy call given your read.

There are different types of LAGs but at least one variety of them doesn't think that much about what his opponents are holding.

Also, often part of what makes someone a LAG is that they want to build pots for those times they do win. Villain may know that he is not good here a great deal of the time but wants a bigger pot for when he happens to be good. He doesn't necessarily thinkwhether probabilistically he can legitimately raise for value. He just kinows it feels good when the pot is bigger those times he wins.

Edit: Not to mention that the LAG actually made you think about folding the best hand which, of course, is also part of the LAG's modus operandi.

Grisgra · #14 09-02-2005, 01:50 PM

You don't win this 5% of the time, probably more like 2% . . . but if you fold and he shows you his hand, you have to kill yourself, so you really need to call.

baronzeus · #15 09-02-2005, 02:07 PM

[ QUOTE ]
You don't win this 5% of the time, probably more like 2% . . . but if you fold and he shows you his hand, you have to kill yourself, so you really need to call.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is the main reason I call.

Grisgra · #16 09-02-2005, 02:19 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
You don't win this 5% of the time, probably more like 2% . . . but if you fold and he shows you his hand, you have to kill yourself, so you really need to call.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is the main reason I call.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah, sad but true. But those who think that this is a purely +EV call are wrong. I think that even knowing that the CO is a LAG, they're wrong (though it's probably closer).

Still, have to make the call.

marand · #17 09-02-2005, 02:36 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
You don't win this 5% of the time, probably more like 2% . . . but if you fold and he shows you his hand, you have to kill yourself, so you really need to call.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is the main reason I call.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah, sad but true. But those who think that this is a purely +EV call are wrong. I think that even knowing that the CO is a LAG, they're wrong (though it's probably closer).

Still, have to make the call.

[/ QUOTE ]

Well glad I made the call this time, otherwise I wouldn't be alive to write this [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]