AJs flops TPTK

[thesharpie]

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This hand falls under the category of "marginal hand" on the flop. It's a TPTK that has very little pot equity (compared to most). Once the turn hits, your pot equity is about gone.

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I realize it's a marginal hand, and I could understand just calling if our raising isn't knocking anyone out, or maybe if there are many people in the pot, but I think we have to raise when it's 4 handed.

[istewart]

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Turn looks like a fold.

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Looks close but it could be. Just throwing out a range for an unknown given the flop flat-call, it's probably 99, AK, AQ, KQ. Of course some people get tricky here with AA, JJ, and TT but I'm not sure.

[paperboyNC]

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I realize it's a marginal hand, and I could understand just calling if our raising isn't knocking anyone out, or maybe if there are many people in the pot, but I think we have to raise when it's 4 handed.

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The correct way to the play this is to call the flop and then raise a safe turn card and fold to a bad turn card.

[sean c]

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I realize it's a marginal hand, and I could understand just calling if our raising isn't knocking anyone out, or maybe if there are many people in the pot, but I think we have to raise when it's 4 handed.

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The correct way to the play this is to call the flop and then raise a safe turn card and fold to a bad turn card.

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This is terrible advice IMO not check/raising the flop is a mistake.

[paperboyNC]

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This is terrible advice IMO not check/raising the flop is a mistake.

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You are right in a way that it's more important to protect a marginal hand than to protect an extremely strong hand.

However, a raise on the flop does not protect your hand. If the turn is safe, a raise on the turn will protect your hand.

This is a simple, yet important concept in limit poker.

[TXTiger]

I think the check raise on the flop is fine, but it's close. You have a marginal hand and you would like to see a safe turn card before putting in a lot chips. But because of our poor position thats just not possible. If we call the flop(which is a reasonable play give this terrible board) then what do we do on the turn? Do we plan on check calling again? Do we plan on letting villain check his AK through and we just gave a free card in a decent pot when half the deck beats us? You need to lead a safe turn card, and since we are leading a good card. I think we invest 1 more sb by raising the flop to try and knock somone out.

But here's the big reason to raise the flop ... Information. This is a draw heavy kinda scary flop for marginal hands. By raising we either get it hu or we know that the limpers flopped something that they like, since they will be calling 2 cold. But then we have to use the information on the turn. They obviously hit the flop, then a terrible card comes on the turn. I check fold the turn. The only river cards I like for the entire pot are the J [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], and these can easliy be no good. You will likely be splitting with a Q.

I think the best line is c/r flop and lead turn on a non scare card. But I think I would even fold to a turn raise if the 2 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] was the turn card. I think anything that coldcalls the flop and raises the turn has us buried.

I check fold the river here as you played it. What do we beat that villain bets on the turn and river? Only a complete bluff, and he bet into 3 people on the turn after 2 of them cold called a flop raise. I doubt you are good 3% of the time on the river.

[jt1]

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The correct way to the play this is to call the flop and then raise a safe turn card and fold to a bad turn card.



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This is a simple, yet important concept in limit poker

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Don't pretend to be so wise. I agree that you should just call the flop, but raising the turn won't be easy. It's unlikely that CO will bet again unless he is ahead.

[sean c]

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This is terrible advice IMO not check/raising the flop is a mistake.

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You are right in a way that it's more important to protect a marginal hand than to protect an extremely strong hand.

However, a raise on the flop does not protect your hand. If the turn is safe, a raise on the turn will protect your hand.

This is a simple, yet important concept in limit poker.

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We are not folding OESD or flush draws with a flop check/raise or a turn check/raise but we want to protect our hand against overcards, gutshots and back door flush draws. By check/raising the flop we are facing the field with 11.5:2 by just calling we are giving them 10.5:1.

[jt1]

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By check/raising the flop we are facing the field with 11.5:2 by just calling we are giving them 10.5:1.


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I've been trying to think of a rebuttal to this, but I can't. Sean C, would you say that hero should check fold any diamond 9, 7, or Q on the turn after he check raises the flop.

[sean c]

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By check/raising the flop we are facing the field with 11.5:2 by just calling we are giving them 10.5:1.


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I've been trying to think of a rebuttal to this, but I can't. Sean C, would you say that hero should check fold any diamond 9, 7, or Q on the turn after he check raises the flop.

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I'm not sure. I think the turn play here is the tough part of this hand. Maybe the fact that the entire field called my flop c/r means my equity is nil and I think that is a rebuttal against the flop check/raise but the pot is now decent (thanks again to my flop check/raise) so I don't want to just give up I would probably bet/fold the turn but there may be a better argument for check/calling or check/folding.