two advices from cardplayer magazine...are they right?

[KingOtter]

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Advice number 1 from Rolf Slotboom: "First of all, I dont think KQ offsuit is a raising hand after four limper. It is usually better to just call, hoping to flop top pair with a good kicker, a good but vulnerable hand that is often easier to defend in an unraised pot...."

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That's how I play it. I raise with it in EP, in order to discourage a multi-way pot, and I raise with it in LP in order to isolate a loose limper or two. But if there are lots of people in the pot, I don't like raising it, and usually limp.

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Advice number 2 from Barry Tanenbaum. He pretty much says that one of the common and costly limit holdem errors is "calling turn raises with one pair". Then he gives an example where you have AK and flop is K65 rainbow, turn is 9 and you get check/raised. "Unless your opponent is very tricky, you are beat....you should almost always fold".

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People like to slow-play monsters on the flop. They feel they aren't getting paid for their hand so check/call and bump the turn. In his case I think he's saying that it is very likely the opponent has a set, or 2 pair. In any case, the raiser is telling you 'You bet with a K on the board, and that K doesn't scare me'.

I don't think I'd fold... I'd probably call down with it, depending on who the raiser was.

KO

[deception5]

The first is clearly designed for higher stakes where a limper has a premium hand and where there are usually 3 or less players to the flop (so 4 limpers would be a rarity).

The second is mostly live games. Check out this post from Ed Miller (in the MicroLimit Collection post Here )...

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Ed Miller
Everything seems fine except for your lack of a three-bet on the turn. Why no three-bet?

Because I'm a freakshow. I knew button had AQ at the time, and I just didn't 3-bet. This may sound very strange to an online player, but I have very little experience 3-betting the turn with a one-pair hand. That is because very few people raise one-pair hands for value in a live game (at least in my games)... so generally they are either bluffing or have you beat. Of course this hand is very different, and I made a big mistake.


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[einbert]

All limpers are not equal.

All turn checkraises are not equal.

Poker is a totally context-driven game.

[SlantNGo]

Even against 0.5/1 limpers, I'll limp KQ after 4 of em. Sure I've got an edge now, but it gets smaller with every additional limper, so I'll wait for the flop to push a bigger edge or get out cheaply.

[TomBrooks]

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Advice number 2 from Barry Tanenbaum. He pretty much says that one of the common and costly limit holdem errors is "calling turn raises with one pair" [and] "Unless your opponent is very tricky, you are beat....you should almost always fold".

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This is correct.

[Entity]

#1 of those two is generally correct. Read HEPFAP if you're curious, but KQ is not a great raising hand there.

#2 is a close decision and really depends on your opponent; I have folded AK there before, but usually I call down -- this probably is offset by playing in a more aggressive game. Depends on pot size and other things, of course.

Rob

[aces_dad]

more often than not, you will flop top pair.

Can I borrow your luckbox?

[hicherbie]

what can i say....i flop like a champ.

but you know what i meant. ure not looking to flop a gutshot...etc....

[aces_dad]

Just being a nit. [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

[Shillx]

#1 of those two is generally correct. Read HEPFAP if you're curious, but KQ is not a great raising hand there.

True, but you can find a raise here imo when people are coming in with T5s and A3o. Against reasonable players yeah it is certainly a limp.

Brad