Passive play theory vol.1

[lil feller]

[ QUOTE ]
I dunno. I would definately call this flop, if not raise it right there. I may end up raising if I still truly thought my KQ was still good. With the Qh you may be able to knock out someone with a Kh (or even Ah) while still maintaining the free card possibility if you don't improve. This is in an ideal situation of course, but more often than not a quick raise right out on the flop will put you in better situations.

[/ QUOTE ]

You are never, ever, ever getting the ace of hearts to fold on that flop, and thinking that you can is crazy. If the Ah is in the hand raising the flop will only get you 3bet by the hand with the best draw.

Calling on this flop is questionable at best, but once you turn top pair raising is essential. A turn raise might, just might, get the Kh to fold. You'll never get the Ah to fold, not even for 2 bets, unless the player is aware and the board pairs on the turn.

lf

[The Truth]

Agressor had 8s-10h,
cold call hed a weak 9, no heart. ::Shrug:: I guess they went on crazy monkey tilt.
MHIG.

thanks for the responses
truth

[KidPokerX]

what will happen more often?
A lot of times your opponents will not have the Ah. More times than not they will lay it down.

[lil feller]

[ QUOTE ]
what will happen more often?
A lot of times your opponents will not have the Ah. More times than not they will lay it down.

[/ QUOTE ]

I truly hope you aren't suggesting that after a 3 heart flop that somebody will actually fold the A of hearts? Granted it might not be out, but we can't know that. If it is, its not folding, I don't care how much pressure you put on the person holding it. Nobody folds a nutflush draw in a multiway pot on an unpaired board on the flop. Period. They're calling 4 cold, and in a pot this big, they are correct in doing so.

Am I misundertstanding your point?

lf

[vmacosta]

Call me crazy, but I always raise this flop. If the bettor is truly passive then he will just call the raise (and go for the c/r on turn with monsters otherwise c/c the rest of the way). After raising the flop, I'll re-evaluate but if I'm heads up with LP, I'll bet the turn and call a raise. Folding the river UI would be an expert play I'd only do if I'd played many hands with the opponent.

[KidPokerX]

Kinda.
My point is that more often than not nobody will have the Ah.

[Nightwish]

Raise the flop to clear out aces, other drawing hands (though not a heart, of course), and small made hands. But while we can debate about raising the flop, raising the turn is a no-brainer. It's a must raise. I'm really shocked by some posters claiming that hero's hand is "marginal" on the turn.

[haakee]

This is a perfect spot to raise the turn.

[KidPokerX]

This is why raising the flop would have been a good idea.
Not all situations are black and white. All the by-the-book posters have much more to learn.

[SoBeDude]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I know the villain has an AF of .4, but that is from playing over half his hands. I don't know if you can exactly correlate that to like the aggression of 25vp$ip/0.8AF but his bets aren't nearly as scary as a 20/0.4 so it might not be such a doom and gloom scenario.

[/ QUOTE ]

Does anybody have a link that helps explain the relation between VPIP and AF? I think I get it, but don't want to bog down the board with repetive discussion. I'll try a search too.

thanks,

lf

[/ QUOTE ]

I could be totally wrong, but there should be no link between the two.

One is all about how often (in percentages) you decide to play. The other is all about after you do decide to play, how hard you bet/raise as opposed to check/call.

So...they should be totally independent.

-Scott