Is this a good plan? Staking a friend, want suggestions

[w_alloy]

I would love it if you respond to my posts as long as you read them. Especially if you have expierience. I will go through your post and tell you what I found confusing.

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Sign him up for rakeback and you will earn all rakeback through life of the deal.

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I assume you mean I dont sponser his rakeback, but take all of it. Your wording is a bit ambiguous. Anyways, this is not a bad idea but is only a start.

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Then go 50/50 with profits.

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This is the only other thing of content you say. This is extremely ambiguous. If I take half his profits and all his rakeback, this will crpple his winnings. Also, the time interval I take his "profits" is extremely important. If, for example, it is weekly would I also pay half if he has a losing week? What if he is up 600 one week then down 300 then up 200 in 3 weeks. Assuming we do nothing on a losing week, then I'm actually taking 7/8s of his profit plus rakeback which is absurd. If you take a very long term approach to "profits" this is still a very crippling deal.

You dont even address some of the more important things like BR, which games to play, player development, and buying him a computer, for example.

[Matt24]

I have never taken money out of my players' bankrolls. I just let it ride, we both just keep reinvesting until he gets up to where he is making some good money that we can actually split up. I don't have any players making good money with the actual poker yet.

With the rakeback, yes you should get all of the rakeback, that way you are getting a good return on your money with him just breaking even. For example, I put $1000 into one players bankroll to multitable 1-2. He earned over 200 rakeback in his first month while breaking even in the games. I made 20% on my money for that month. If you want, you can kick some of this back, I do.

[w_alloy]

You missed the fact that my goal is not to make money...

[Reef]

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You missed the fact that my goal is not to make money...

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well, you might as well take free $ if the opportunity arises (i.e. rakeback)

[w_alloy]

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well, you might as well take free $ if the opportunity arises (i.e. rakeback)

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Its not free money, anything i take from his playing is comming from his br. There are lots of ways I could take money from him, this is one. Did you read the original post?

Hey,

The rakeback is a great idea. That way you are going to get some of the money back without hurting your friends bankroll. Taking money out of a bankroll under 10k is just not a great idea. I know 6K is supposed to be enough for 5-10, but what about moving up. I also keep way more than 500BB in my account relative to my level of play.

What is of concern to me is your general attitude that the game is soooo easy almost anyone can do it. It sounds like you are have a good bit of success, but the ability to win over the long term is a razor sharp line. I have compared it to putting your hand on a sharp knife. If the angle is just right it won't cut you. IF you slip one way or the other you get hurt bad.

Be very careful with your bankroll and be willing to accept losing the money you give to the friend. I have a friend who we have helped each other in the past. It has never hurt our friendship one bit even when we are into each other for 1000s.

Setup the rake back / Give him the money / accept loosing it / help him as much as possible / have him start at a very low level for as much experience as possible (1/2 is a decent starting point)

Brett

[w_alloy]

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What is of concern to me is your general attitude that the game is soooo easy almost anyone can do it. It sounds like you are have a good bit of success, but the ability to win over the long term is a razor sharp line. I have compared it to putting your hand on a sharp knife. If the angle is just right it won't cut you. IF you slip one way or the other you get hurt bad.

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I would compare it to taking an advanced chemistry final. Two Plus Two and their books are the class and textbooks. Most people straight up take the test without prep, which is suicide. A lot of people skim through the books, and skip class. Many others dont pay attention in class and have a hard time remember everything in the books. Still others try their heart out but suck at chemisty. The last group is relatively small, but it is not a matter of luck getting into this group.

Variance plays a big part on the test, but not an overwhelming part.

Edit: I am leaning toward rakeback instead of a % now.

[tripdad]

i too staked a friend(though not as close a friend as this guy is to you).

i bought him a computer, router, p-tracker and gave him a 2K bankroll for a total investment of 3K. the deal was that he had to pay me 20% of his monthly winnings until i was paid back 120% of my investment. plus, i signed him up under my affiliate account, and i kept all "rakeback" until i was paid in full.

i was paid in full after 3 months, and made around $1800 i think (you can search for my post about it in this forumn about 5 months or so ago).***went ahead and posted a link to my post for you***
my staking post

cheers!

[Zetack]

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About the possibility that he won't be good, I think you guys are way way overstating this. With proper guidance (this is sososo important), I dont see how someone with reasonable intelligence could lose at this game, let alone someone who is probably upper 95-99 and is very well adjusted.


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Ahh, I needed a good laugh. Thanks. Look, I don't think winning at poker is an impossible task, obviously. But I do think its possible for intelligent, thoughtful, people with guidance and poker books to not get it. Particularly to not get to the point in three months of making better money than at a part time job.

Application of theory is not as straightforward as you seem to think, at least as I recall from my learning days. A lot of things come with experience, and for some people the gray areas never become clear. And you can't really expect a newbie to sit down and start cranking out 20k hands a month to get quickly experienced.

Look, I'm not saying your friend won't be a significant winner (and by significant I mean enough of one to make this whole excersize worthwhile) or even that its more likely than not that he won't be a significant winner. But if you said, hey, I'm ninety percent sure he'll be a significant winner I'd think that was a ludicrous statement.

So its not that I don't think this will work, its just that you seem inordinately confident that it will.

--Zetack

[w_alloy]

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Ahh, I needed a good laugh. Thanks. Look, I don't think winning at poker is an impossible task, obviously. But I do think its possible for intelligent, thoughtful, people with guidance and poker books to not get it. Particularly to not get to the point in three months of making better money than at a part time job.

Application of theory is not as straightforward as you seem to think, at least as I recall from my learning days. A lot of things come with experience, and for some people the gray areas never become clear. And you can't really expect a newbie to sit down and start cranking out 20k hands a month to get quickly experienced.

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I definantly respect your viewpoint, which seems to be shared by the majority of posters here. I disagree with it and wish to discuss this further.

I think a better analogy then the chemistry test one I gave above is that of high level athletics. While it certainly requires a high aptitude and lots of pratcise, poker is not very exclusive and it is very predictable (as long as you have a very detailed knoweledge of said person's psychology and abilities) who will succeed and fail. Even moreso than in athletics, coaching, atmosphere, and attitude are the most important factors in continued development in poker.

I will admit many advanced concepts are hard to apply to play, especially while multitabling as a beginner. But as long as the right approach is taken, anyone with well above average intelligence will understand them in a relitively short period of time, and will be able to apply them in games with practice (I do not think 20k hands/month is unreasonable for a motivated college student, and this is enough to get most concepts in a situation as described above).

I think a lot of the randomness and difficulty most people think are inherent in becoming a succesfull poker player can be attributed to poor starts and poor attitudes. People see many others fail but dont realize the hidden mistakes which were avoidable that were made. Maybe they see the mistakes and think they were unavoidable. I think with help they are pretty much all avoidable, and without making these mistakes (as long as you already have in place the things we have already discussed) it is hard to fail in low limit poker.

A very very small percantage of players are strictly guided and well read from the start; endoctrined with crucial ideas such as BR management, feeling neutral to suckouts, and handling downswings. I think a very high percentage of players who get this start and have a modest amount of aptitude succeed.

Just fyi, Im not trying to push myself off as a great coach. However, I did have a very uneducated and rocky start (like most people on here) and know the mistakes beginners can make. My technical abilities are not great, but they are certainly good enough to steer a beginner in the right direction.