Call this river? $215 - Page 2

microbet · #11 08-31-2005, 01:54 AM

I bet the turn, but probably fold the river.

Michael C. · #12 08-31-2005, 02:42 AM

Villian limped and then called your raise. Doesn't that mean a small/medium pocket pair more often than anything else? And lets say he had 8s or 9s, might he call a 10 high flop and then see what you do on the turn? And when you checked the turn, he might think his pair is best. Like others have said, I think you should have bet the turn, as the K should have been a scarier card for him that for you. But getting 2-1 pot odds, I think I'd call the river bet, and expect to win half of the time. He could have been planning to check raise the turn, but do those of you advocating folding really think hero loses this more than half the time? Isn't the river card also a perfect bluff card?

Chaostracize · #13 08-31-2005, 03:14 AM

For some reason I was thinking I really wanted to see a cheap showdown. And I thought I'd be able to make more chips by checking the turn, letting him think the K scared me, than calling a decent sized bet on the river.

Wrong?

-Skeme- · #14 08-31-2005, 03:19 AM

I like the attempt at pot control with the check behind. The board isn't drawheavy, and him having any of the combos for an OESD are unlikely. I also like the intention of calling a decent bet on a safer river, just not the T. I don't think it's wrong, but once he leads that river, I think a fold is best.

microbet · #15 08-31-2005, 03:26 AM

Cheap showdown and winning more chips seem a bit contradictory.

I think if you are beat, you are not likely to get to see a very cheap showdown and if you are ahead on the turn he probably has more outs than you do. That's pretty much why I bet.

Checking will certainly be best sometimes, but my feeling is betting the turn is better.

curtains · #16 08-31-2005, 04:09 AM

A few things:

1. I would raise a bit more preflop but okay there is nothing really wrong with your raise. After 2 limpers I'll make it 75 or so, to give them a bit more to think about before calling.

2. Flop bet seems fine

3. This is a key moment IMO. I would not check here if you plan to fold to a river bet. If you feel that you can bet this turn and safely fold if check raised, then I like betting. However if you check the turn, you are using your hand as a bluffcatcher. Thus when the river comes and it's not an overcard, it's inconsistant to just fold.

Probably I worded this badly, but after checking the turn I'd call the river, even thought it was a ten. It's surprising that he didnt raise the flop if he had a ten anyhow. Also his bet amount is a reasonable size for a bluff, especially as he may think you have absolutely nothing.

If you plan to fold to the riverbet, you need to bet the turn as your hand is just too likely to be the best hand still, and you can't give him such an easy oppurtunity to bluff you out. Bet 200 or so and fold to an allin if you want, but don't check the turn and just fold to a river bet.

Chaostracize · #17 08-31-2005, 10:24 AM

The reason I didn't go crazy with my raise was only because I had the button and I couldn't get repopped behind me. If I was in the CO I was raising 75-90.

I'm up in the air on whether I fudged this hand, but I think it's close. I'm almost leaning towards a 1/3 pot bet the more I think about it though, especially since I want to see a cheap showdown. This'll get me there, so I don't have to face a big river bet and if I do I'm almost definitely beat.

As it turns out, villain had KT. Ah well.

durron597 · #18 08-31-2005, 10:25 AM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I fold this river, but I bet the turn first.

[/ QUOTE ]

[/ QUOTE ]

citanul · #19 08-31-2005, 11:02 AM

[ QUOTE ]
The reason I didn't go crazy with my raise was only because I had the button and I couldn't get repopped behind me. If I was in the CO I was raising 75-90.

[/ QUOTE ]

I guess that when you raise from non button positions, a tiny part of the reason you raise the size you do is supposed to have something to do with convincing no one to reraise behind you, but mostly, when you've got people in the pot, you want to try to not give everyone left to act including the blinds and limpers something less than terrific odds to call with any two cards.

citanul

fnord_too · #20 08-31-2005, 12:50 PM

With no reads, yeah, call that. About the only thing I do different in the hand is make it 75 pre-flop with two limpers. I like checking behind on the turn there, but that means you will get shots taken at you on the river or value bet on the river more often. Villain can have a lot of hands here, and you are good at least half the time IMO. Reads could change my answer, though.