Floating DERB

[Turning Stone Pro]

I like the cold call preflop, instead of the 3 bet, for this reason.

DERB, unlike any other opponent I have come across, is NOT going to allow you to beat him if he has a better hand, no matter what the board shows at the end. In other words, if he has you beat, even though you have position, he will see it to the end.

I like playing against DERB as cheaply as possible, knowing that you are probably in the lead with A5s here. The benefit of doing this is that DERB is going to pay off if he is behind.

DERB makes his $ by overplaying hands so that his small pairs and medium-high cards hold up when you miss the flop and are forced to fold, and once in a while when he does get a decent hand he invariably gets paid off.

Remember, DERBs VPIP numbers are not as god-awful as some, and the way to make $ against him is his overplay of mediocre hands. Just let him keep betting into you, IMO.

I like Dcifr's play here.

TSP

[DcifrThs]

[ QUOTE ]
Glad to know that some people agree with my 3 bet line. I'm still curious as to why James, BK, and Barron didn't like this, i'm sure it's not a coincidence. Maybe they can enlighten me.

[/ QUOTE ]

the thing is that 3betting doesn't accomplish anything.

DERB will never ever fold a better hand if ahead as TSP stated very well (i think, in fact, his post sums it up perfectly) and it'll cost you dearly if behind.

the reason i wanted to raise the turn and call it down is because im one of those exact people that DERB makes money off of (stats wise). he/she/it overplays all kinds of hands that cannot beat ace high in order to get a low pair or exactly ace high to fold. 3betting preflop increases the size of the pot and increases DERB's likelihood of getting tricky after the flop.

further, we have tight blinds. sure i'm now letting them in with T8s etc. but i dont have to be in a position to put in 4 bets w/ the absolute horendously worse of it (if i were to 3 bet and one of them cold capped). worst case scenario is one of them 3 and then 4 bet or one of them 3 bets and DERB caps.

the call preflop is best because it costs less when behind and accomplishes the same thing as 3betting in terms of post flop play vs. DERB.

Barron

[DcifrThs]

again, DERB raises hijack i cold call w/ A4hh blinds fold HU.

Qs8s8x bet call.

some blank, check bet call.

another blank check check.

DERB tables As4s for a freeroll vs. my hand and we chop up the pot.

im extremely surpised that a) i was not c'red in this hand on the turn, and b) that DERB did not bet the river.

i think this shows that DERB sees my play a little bit differently than he used to or has just randomly toned down his/her play against me in that spot.

either way i think my plan of raising the turn is bad and thats mainly why i posted the hand. i think the preflop cold call is the best play vs. DERBy and those blinds.

raising the turn...like 3 betting preflop will not accomplish much, and opens me up to a bag of wormies from derby.

thanksfor the responses guys.
Barron

[ggbman]

Sorry, i don't mean to drag this out too much. But just to be clear, the intention of the 3 bet is to increase the likelihood of getting the pots heads up.

IMHO, when you cold call, one of the blinds is much more likely to come along for the ride, which means you have to change your goals, you simply look to showdown cheaply against derb. I understand that Derb is NEVER folding a better hand postflop, but this doesn't mean we can't get funky ourselves and check behind some more marginal flops to keep the pot small. He can't put in more than 1 bet on each street if we don't let him. Just some thoughts...

Gabe

[catlover]

What if the big blind has a medium ace (A8o, A9o, ATo)?

I think a 3-bet is much more likely to get rid of him than a cold call. Furthermore I think you really want to get rid of him.

Same could be said of pairs like 44, 55 and 66, from either blind.

[YoureToast]

[ QUOTE ]
you simply look to showdown cheaply against derb.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think this is precisely the reason why DERB beats up on we tighties/solids. Everybody wants to get to showdown with him, but he usually wins when you showdown A4s. I think James hinted that getting to showdown isn't necessarily obvious and I agree.

[Paluka]

I don't really understand most of this thread. It seems like people have the attitude that the way to beat DERB is by playing bad. Cold calling with marginal hands and deciding then and there to go to showdown isn't a winning strategy against anyone but the craziest of crazies. The way to beat DERB is to play strong hands against him, punish him for overplaying, and not paying off too big when he makes a big hand.

[ggbman]

I agree, but you're taking my point out of ontext. I'm saying if Barron wants to showdown A4 almost no matter what, we NEED to make sure this pot is HU.

[YoureToast]

[ QUOTE ]
I agree, but you're taking my point out of ontext. I'm saying if Barron wants to showdown A4 almost no matter what, we NEED to make sure this pot is HU.

[/ QUOTE ]

And I agree with that. I think 3 betting here is better than calling, but given the tightness of the blinds, calling is not crazy. I like the 80/20 approach suggested by another poster.

[YoureToast]

[ QUOTE ]
I don't really understand most of this thread. It seems like people have the attitude that the way to beat DERB is by playing bad. Cold calling with marginal hands and deciding then and there to go to showdown isn't a winning strategy against anyone but the craziest of crazies. The way to beat DERB is to play strong hands against him, punish him for overplaying, and not paying off too big when he makes a big hand.

[/ QUOTE ]

Well said. We all are eager to get our hands in against the fish, but instead we should be eager to get up against the fish the our good hands.