I was going to fold until I kinda improved on the turn

[ QUOTE ]
Anyone else have a problem with the preflop action?

[/ QUOTE ] Easy call both times.

How does the turn Q improve your hand other than the fact that it makes it more likely that no one has a queen?

I think, given the information that you provided, that the big blind's range of hands could easily include pairs lower than 88 and he is simply calling down. But the fact that CO 3 bets the flop after seeing a check raise and a cold call would make me want to check/fold.

[Evan]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Hmmm, firstly I'm looking at Preflop. Clearly your odds for the set are destroyed even on your initial call, this is unless your figuring you have huge implied odds from the two raisers?

[/ QUOTE ]
Anyone else have a problem with the preflop action?

[/ QUOTE ]
You should call there with any pair.

[W. Deranged]

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[ QUOTE ]
That's all I know. I would think the options are to check-call down or to bet-fold the turn, though I bet you'll get raised on the turn by AK often enough here that it's no that great a line. I think folding here might be totally fine.

[/ QUOTE ]
I don't like the b/f line, since an opponent could also raise you with a worse PP or a 2, and check behind on the river. I think I like c/f or c/c barring xtra action.

[/ QUOTE ]

Me too.

[shant]

I don't know if Evan plans on posting it, but he made a good argument for check-calling the flop and I agree that line is best.

[TimM]

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Hmmm, firstly I'm looking at Preflop. Clearly your odds for the set are destroyed even on your initial call

[/ QUOTE ]

Huh? He's already getting almost 6-1 on the initial call because of the 2/3 structure, and it's going to be 9-1 the second time.

[istewart]

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I dont think you improved on the turn. I don't see any hands he's 3betting the flop with that you've pulled ahead of now.

[/ QUOTE ]

22 is not that far out of reach.

[JacksonTens]

2/3 structure? Sorry didn't note that. Still I don't know, I tornament theory could easily be applied here: A middle pocket pair is fine to go in with against one opponent, but with this many I think the odds of someone holding a higher PP a considerably higher, plus even if this isn't the case the multitude of overcards that are most likely out add further detriment. In this situation your 88 only marginally better than 22. As many of the hands that would otherwise give you an edge are not in play.
JT [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]

[W. Deranged]

[ QUOTE ]
I don't know if Evan plans on posting it, but he made a good argument for check-calling the flop and I agree that line is best.

[/ QUOTE ]

I imagine an argument for the check-call involves the following:

1. The pot is so ginormous you can't really protect against anything. Hands like KJ maybe not still be around given the heavy action anyway. You are likely up against a couple of other pairs and some legit big card hands.

2. Your hand at this point will very, very often be essentially a drawing hand. Given that you will be getting something over 20-1 to take off the turn, you will have odds to take off the turn for set value alone (note that board texture means you will usually have two totally clean outs). If you can't figure you usually have an equity edge against the field, then the key is seeing the turn as cheaply as possible. So we check call and then turn an 8.

3. If this flop is bet and raised, we are very, very unlikely to be ahead here. If it gets bet and we check-raise, only to find ourselves getting three-bet, we are really in bad shape, and have just paid three-bet to see our 22-1 draw.

Dang, if you're folding 88 here, then you're just nut-peddling and not playing poker.