A texas hold em hand

[Steve Giufre]

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I think a lot of the hands in this guys range can't take any heat on this board.

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You just said in 10 words what i tried to say in 400 or so.

[DcifrThs]

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omg!! no way! a TEXAS HOLDEM hand from stevieeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee g??!?!? im in SHOCK! [/sarcasm]

here's how i would have played this hand. 3bet preflop. bet /3bet the flop. bet the turn. bet the river.

given that you just called preflop i think taking your line occasionally is cool daddy-o. i sometimes think a turn c'r is fine as an A can come to a K whereas if you had AJ on an A high board your line works too (the fact you have 2nd best king or 3rd worse ace is just illustritive, i made it AJ b/c you absolutely must 3 bet AQ). he may check behind if an ace comes, but thats neither here nor there.

against 30/20/2's i tend to play my good hands very very very aggressively b/c they are loose and very very aggressive. they go off for TONS of bets.

in my past two sessions though ive noticed something depressing: some of these types of players have stopped giving me personally as much action as they used to after ive pumelled the hell out of them with something like middle pair top kicker and won a 10-15bb pot a few times. in this regard i think after nailing them 2 or 3 times i have to start being passive vs. them so they continue to give me the same level of action they give others.

all in all stevieeeeeeeeeee g, i think you're line is fine on occasion but if you do this every time you'll lose money onthe early streets that you may or may not make up on the laterones.

EDIT/copied from other post in thread: however, if this guys stats belie his action given postflop this line will certainly win more from him when he has nothing or A high he kept betting (which since he bet the river its likely he doesn't have Ahigh but a pair). so if thats the case, stevieeeeeeeeeeeee's line is optimal against that exact type of opponent./edit

but if you were gunna pick a hand and spot for this line, you did it. nh.

-Barron

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Intersting points. The reason I didnt play it fast is because I think this guy is gonna have dirt more often than not. My hand is really well protected when I'm ahead, and I'm pretty sure he'll keep firing if I keep checking. I thought about checkraising the turn, but I thought there was just to much of a chance he had something like Q10, or 89, or whatever, and would turbo muck. I wanted to give him a chance to bet both the turn and river for me if he didnt have a hand. I also dont think he checks 88 or 99 here behind on the river all that often. I was fairly sure he would value bet me again with those hands. However, if Im wrong about how often he will value bet a middle pair then my line could be bad.

There is defintely something to be said for playing it superfast, since at least some of the time he doesnt have a hand, he might chose to play back at me anyway.

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u good. you make more when ahead and he has dirt.

only question is how often do you give up those extra few bbs? A8 (in the example somewhere else in the thread would call the pf 3bet (+.5bbs) call the flop bet (+0) call the turn bet (+0bbs) and maybe call the river (call it -.25bbs on average) so we end up with a line that is +.25bbs vs. A8 assuming he plays it that way. QT we lose 2bbs [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img] ...so the poitn about not taking heat is a good one.

-Barron

-B

[kurosh]

I don't understand why the river CR is standard. Even a LAG raising UTG must have a good hand, right? Do you normally bluff CR the river? I don't know what worse hand he will call with here. QQ maybe?

[Steve Giufre]

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I don't understand why the river CR is standard. Even a LAG raising UTG must have a good hand, right? Do you normally bluff CR the river? I don't know what worse hand he will call with here. QQ maybe?

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Its not a bluff at all. He will never fold a better hand. I do get called by worse hands here all time by these types of players. IMO a player with these numbers will rarely lay down a pair for one bet on the river here.

Also I dont think he has to have a real hand just cause he raised UTG. He raises one fifth of his hands, I assume any two broadway cards, suited connectors and all pairs are in his range.

By the way, Im not sure if you are asking me if I normally bluff CR the river because you think I am bluffing here, or because if I normally bluff CR the river I am more likely to get paid off by a worse hand in this spot. If its the latter, the answer is no, although I doubt this guy is not paying attention to what anybody else at the table does other than possibly himself.

[kurosh]

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I don't understand why the river CR is standard. Even a LAG raising UTG must have a good hand, right? Do you normally bluff CR the river? I don't know what worse hand he will call with here. QQ maybe?

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Its not a bluff at all. He will never fold a better hand. I do get called by worse hands here all time by these types of players. IMO a player with these numbers will rarely lay down a pair for one bet on the river here.

Also I dont think he has to have a real hand just cause he raised UTG. He raises one fifth of his hands, I assume any two broadway cards, suited connectors and all pairs are in his range.

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I didn't mean that this was a bluff CR. I meant in your normal game do you ever bluff CR the river? Because if not, then he would always know the CR on the river is a real hand that wants a call. Yes, he does raise a lot but you still have to take into account position, I think. I just c/c this down the whole way.

I don't think there's an 8, 5 or 2 in his UTG raising range, unless he hit a set. Does 66-77 and 99-QQ bet the river? Do they call a raise? I don't think they call a raise. I think the best you can you hope for is a split or weaker king like KJ when he calls the river raise.

I dunno. Maybe I'm giving too much credit to a 30/20 type player?

[Steve Giufre]

I just edited my other post cause I thought that was what you might mean. I dont river CR bluff often, but I dont think he is paying very close attention to my betting tendencies.

[ike]

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I think a lot of the hands in this guys range can't take any heat on this board.

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You just said in 10 words what i tried to say in 400 or so.

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I think you guys are underestimating how much heat a 32/20/2.2 can take heads up and in position. I don't see him folding this flop to a checkraise basically ever. I see him calling and then raising the turn with many, many of his losers.

[partygirluk]

Do you fold if the river is 3 bet?

[ghcnoob]

I like your play. I might bet the river, though.

I had problems with the converter too 'till someone told me to take the word 'TEXAS' out of the top part of the pasted post and now I can post again.

[Steve Giufre]

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Do you fold if the river is 3 bet?

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I would have paid off yeah. Agaist anybody half way sane I would lay down.