Should we feel compassion for mercenaries killed in war?

[warlockjd]

Should we feel compassion for coal miners who die in a trapped mine?

edit: occupational hazard, answer yes to both questions here

[Matty]

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No, because profit and fun are their primary motivations for killing- not protecting their country, ensuring freedoms, helping humanity or anything else.

[/ QUOTE ]Yeah, nobody ever joined the army for selfish motives.

[/ QUOTE ]No one said that. If someone joined the military to murder people for profit and fun (some of my friends have done just that) I would feel no compassion for their deaths either.

However our troops will always be given the benefit of the doubt. Also our troops do a lot more than just kill.

It's false to pretend that mercenaries and the military do the same job and the only difference is public vs. private sector.

[tylerdurden]

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It's false to pretend that mercenaries and the military do the same job and the only difference is public vs. private sector.

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The private mercenaries have special skills. Someone obviously values those skills, why should they not be compensated? Should these guys be forced to serve?

If the war is being fought under "ficticious pretenses" anyway, and isn't actually vital to our national defense, then why all the blind praise for those who enlisted knowing that they would most likely be sent to Iraq?

Mercenaries do more than "just kill" too. Many of them are involved in training the Iraqi army, and the better they do at that the sooner we can pull our boys back home.

[Matty]

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The private mercenaries have special skills. Someone obviously values those skills, why should they not be compensated?

[/ QUOTE ]Uh, who said they shouldn't be compensated? I've read this thread and no one said that.[ QUOTE ]
Should these guys be forced to serve?

[/ QUOTE ]Of course not. No one should be forced to pretend they have morals, or forced to work a job that more positively benefits society.

However the government should not hire mercenaries. The only reason they do is so they can play fast and loose with the rules (mercenaries are not held by the UCMJ as one example). The mercenaries know this, accept it, and therefore will get no pity from me when they die. It's just as morally bankrupt and dishonest to hire mercenaries as sending prisoners to other countries for "interrogation".

What the government should do instead is recruit these mercenaries with large signup bonuses within the military. But then the huge pay discrepancy would come under the spotlight, and wouldn't that be horrible.

Either that or come clean, abandon the UCMJ, and stop holding our soldiers to a double standard. [ QUOTE ]

If the war is being fought under "ficticious pretenses" anyway, and isn't actually vital to our national defense, then why all the blind praise for those who enlisted knowing that they would most likely be sent to Iraq?

[/ QUOTE ]"Blind praise"? Aren't you snotty.

No one pretends that no good whatsoever is being done in Iraq. The contention is that the cost far outweighs the benefit. So much more could have been done with the resources we've spent in Iraq.

It is also within the capacity of us "blind" liberals to disagree with someone's opinion and reasoning, but praise their commitment and motives at the same time. Mercenaries show no commitment or motives that can warrant compassion.

[tylerdurden]

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Uh, who said they shouldn't be compensated? I've read this thread and no one said that.[ QUOTE ]
Should these guys be forced to serve?

[/ QUOTE ]Of course not. No one should be forced to pretend they have morals, or forced to work a job that more positively benefits society.

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So the job they're doing is valuable, and they're getting fair compensation for it, but they're beneath contempt for doing it?

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However the government should not hire mercenaries. The only reason they do is so they can play fast and loose with the rules (mercenaries are not held by the UCMJ as one example).

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On the other hand, they're not protected by the Geneva Conventions, either.

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The mercenaries know this, accept it, and therefore will get no pity from me when they die. It's just as morally bankrupt and dishonest to hire mercenaries as sending prisoners to other countries for "interrogation".

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Any data to back this up? Do mercenaries actually commit more war atrocities than uniformed soldiers?

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What the government should do instead is recruit these mercenaries with large signup bonuses within the military. But then the huge pay discrepancy would come under the spotlight, and wouldn't that be horrible.

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I don't see how getting a paycheck from the US Government instead of MercCo turns a horrible, cold blooded killing machine into a compassionate, valuable human being.

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Either that or come clean, abandon the UCMJ, and stop holding our soldiers to a double standard.

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So our unioformed soldiers should be committing atrocities?

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The contention is that the cost far outweighs the benefit. So much more could have been done with the resources we've spent in Iraq.

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That doesn't have anything to do with this discussion. Your personal opinion of the war itself (or mine) doesn't make some of the actors morally virtuous and others morally bankrupt.

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It is also within the capacity of us "blind" liberals to disagree with someone's opinion and reasoning, but praise their commitment and motives at the same time. Mercenaries show no commitment or motives that can warrant compassion.

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The motive to make a living doesn't warrant compassion? They have skills, there's a market for those skills, they're doing a job. Are there some immoral mercenaries? Sure. But there are immoral plumbers, mechanics, etc.

[Ray Zee]

generally what happens in any war, is that the leaders are waging it for politcal gain for themselves and the poor saps fighting, are doing it for a cause they were lead to believe in.

The "mercenaries" working in Iraq do either admin/logistical support jobs (semi truck drivers) or personal protective work (bodyguards).

[Matty]

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So the job they're doing is valuable

[/ QUOTE ]This is not necessarily the case.[ QUOTE ]
and they're getting fair compensation for it

[/ QUOTE ]This is also not true. The work mercenaries do for our government is not multiple times as valuable as the work our soldiers do. If soldiers were paid fairly, there wouldn't be enough money aroudn to pay mercenaries 6 figures.

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Any data to back this up? Do mercenaries actually commit more war atrocities than uniformed soldiers?

[/ QUOTE ]Of course there isn't data. There's no way to get data on such things. Hell we have to round civilian death counts off to the tens of thousands in Iraq.

But the fact that we still can't be told what those mercenaries who were burned and hung from a bridge in Iraq were doing in the area they were caught in sounds a little suspicious to me.[ QUOTE ]
I don't see how getting a paycheck from the US Government instead of MercCo turns a horrible, cold blooded killing machine into a compassionate, valuable human being.

[/ QUOTE ]Profit is their only motivation for killing. That is not right. It is a value that is dangerous to humanity. If the insurgents had more money than us, and hired these mercenaries, would you still defend contract killing as a valid profession?

When it comes to war and killing, there need to be rules and a clear line of responsibility. It's what keeps us above savagery.
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So our unioformed soldiers should be committing atrocities?

[/ QUOTE ]Yeah, that's what I said...

At least make misquoting me interesting.
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The motive to make a living doesn't warrant compassion? They have skills, there's a market for those skills, they're doing a job. Are there some immoral mercenaries? Sure. But there are immoral plumbers, mechanics, etc.

[/ QUOTE ]How long are you going to pretend that killing is a profession like any other?

[tylerdurden]

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So the job they're doing is valuable

[/ QUOTE ]This is not necessarily the case.

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Sure it is. Someone is willing to pay for it, it must be valuable. It doesn't matter what your personal opinion of that value is, as long as SOMEONE values it, it's valuable.

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and they're getting fair compensation for it

[/ QUOTE ]This is also not true. The work mercenaries do for our government is not multiple times as valuable as the work our soldiers do. If soldiers were paid fairly, there wouldn't be enough money aroudn to pay mercenaries 6 figures.

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The fact that soldiers are paid less than a market rate (which I don't believe is a given) doesn't imply that mercenaries are paid more than a fair market rate.

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I don't see how getting a paycheck from the US Government instead of MercCo turns a horrible, cold blooded killing machine into a compassionate, valuable human being.

[/ QUOTE ]Profit is their only motivation for killing. That is not right. It is a value that is dangerous to humanity. If the insurgents had more money than us, and hired these mercenaries, would you still defend contract killing as a valid profession?

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I'm pretty sure that mercenaries are not hired with the one-word job description "KILL" as you would like to believe.

Are these guys out on the front lines, wandering around, shooting every non-american they see? How many firefights are initiated by mercenaries (compared to enemy actors or Allied uniformed servicemen)?

[Matty]

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I'm pretty sure that mercenaries are not hired with the one-word job description "KILL" as you would like to believe.

[/ QUOTE ]Okay, how about this: When are you going to admit that the job of war is fundamentally different than the job of, as you put it, plumbing?