Fold the flop here?

[uw_madtown]

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It is an error to fold this preflop.

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OK. If you say so.

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You are getting 7.5-1 on your call preflop here. Folding Q9 would be an error. A clear error.

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Thanks for pointing out a figure that all of us can easily see.

Please explain why an offsuit two-gapped queen is worth 7.5-1, especially given that you'll be OOP the rest of the hand.

[chief444]

Yep. And Q9 offsuit's looking pretty good I guess against a preflop raiser in a multiway pot out of position. It's a real gem.

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You are getting 7.5-1 on your call preflop here. Folding Q9 would be an error. A clear error.

Remember, there is not the risk of domination with Q9 as with hands like KJ, A-10, etc. in this spot.

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OK, my BB calling skillz suck, but I thought it was mostly against blind stealers. But if a Q hits the flop, then I'm not likely dominated? Am I relying on hitting a 9-high flop?

If the button open raises, SB calls, then I may call Q9o (I hope if this is wrong, someone tells me). But in this situation, I'm thinking fold.

[uw_madtown]

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Remember, there is not the risk of domination with Q9 as with hands like KJ, A-10, etc. in this spot.

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That's also silly. You're still subject to domination (AQ/KQ/QJ/A9 are all reasonable hands to see from the raisers and 2 coldcallers here).

This is an ultra easy fold.

Low content warning:

lol Zangief'd.

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It is an error to fold this preflop.

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OK. If you say so.

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You are getting 7.5-1 on your call preflop here. Folding Q9 would be an error. A clear error.

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Thanks for pointing out a figure that all of us can easily see.

Please explain why an offsuit two-gapped queen is worth 7.5-1, especially given that you'll be OOP the rest of the hand.

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You only need 11.7% equity to make the call in the first place, and with the right flop your implied odds are huge here. You may be out of position, but in this spot that is not a terrible thing, since the raiser will act immediately after you. This means that you can checkraise the whole field on a highly favourable flop, and you can bet out and possibly get a raise from the PF raiser to knock out the callers behind. Relative position is very important in this hand.

Obviously, you aren't calling here to flop a queen and not much else, and that's why I think this hand is instructive. I knew a bunch of people here would advocate folding preflop, and this is a clear error. This error often gets compounded when it's a drawy board and the raise comes from an aggressive-type, since he may be raising for the free card and there is a decent chance we have the best hand on the flop here. But the fold is clear, and it is NOT because we might not have the best hand. There is a decent chance of that (and a decent chance that we do have the best hand), but the real problem is that we might not have the best hand combined with the other players' collective outs against us. This and the fact that if we hit out kicker it is a straight-maker.

That's what I thought was instructive, anyways. There are many ways to play this spot incorrectly.

[uw_madtown]

And a third thing: if you think you're not subject to domination, then why aren't you BETTING this flop?

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And a third thing: if you think you're not subject to domination, then why aren't you BETTING this flop?

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I did not say that I was not subject to domination. I said it was less likely than with hands with an A or a K in them.

Not betting this flop is obvious here. Please try to read what I have written instead of being simply argumentative.

[chief444]

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with the right flop your implied odds are huge here.

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If only the odds of the right flop were huge here.

The reasons for the flop fold are fairly obvious. Thanks though for yet another incredibly instructive post. Keep up with the instruction and sooner or later your bound to get one right start to finish.

[hicherbie]

i read your reply, and i still think the way its played, you should bet out and let the pfr raise the field. with Q9o, flopping a queen means you should try and protect your hand. this could be marginal since the pot is a decent size, but not large. the relative pot size, the coordinated nature of the board, and number of opps in this hand do all work against you.

all things considered, i would still recommend betting out and at worst, fold if its two back to you on the flop.