Another limit adventure - fundamentals : being dominated sucks - Page 2

punter11235 · #11 08-17-2005, 09:51 PM

Thanks for this analysis. I think I am slowly getting proper lines I should be thinking along while playing thanks to posts like these.
Also from other response :

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But if you're going to do that, then how about c/c c/c b/f?

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I dont know maybe its better line. I think I have some hopes that Villain wont value bet with AJ and only hand that is calling my bet and not betting the river is A8s (wihch is not very probable I think)

Btw. Is call/call/fold line ridiculous ?

Nick C · #12 08-17-2005, 09:59 PM

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The title, being dominated sucks, gives away the ending or is very misleading.

I have a tough time understanding why calling down is a better line. But if you're going to do that, then how about c/c c/c b/f?

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I think c/c c/c b/f is another line to consider here. I personally don't use it as much as many of the posters here, but that could be to my detriment. In any event, though, I don't think I'd want to bet-fold the river without a read.

Nick C · #13 08-17-2005, 10:04 PM

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Btw. Is call/call/fold line ridiculous ?

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This would be a pretty read-based line to take. You'd really need to have a pretty good idea that MP3 would not value-bet on the river with, say, JJ or KQ but would instead take a free showdown, after having been called on the flop and turn. Also, there are players who will fire that last barrel with, say, QJs.

(And one potential drawback of checkraising the flop, by the way, is that it could blow MP3 off of a hand like KQ that has hardly any chance against you at all.)

punter11235 · #14 08-18-2005, 06:34 AM

I gave it away by the title of the thread. He showe AJo and he took the pot.
Thanks all for comments. I still dont have much feel for these games, for example I dont know if many Villains would bet 3 times with sth worse than top pair.
Preflop comments... I think I will fold it next time.

Best wishes

Carmine · #15 08-18-2005, 07:09 AM

That's why I don't like the PF call. Unless you hit a flush draw your options are to C/R the flop winning the minimum from KK. Lose a decent amount to an aggressive KK that pushes you off a better hand. Lose 2.5 BB postflop when calling down and being dominated. Win 1.5BB from KK postflop. If you do make a flush there are not many players to build a pot.

If there were a bunch of CC'ers between you and PF raiser it may be more correct because of the flush potential but then we are even more concerned about domination(unless we are talking about loose CC'ers)so I'm not really sure what would be correct then.

FWIW, I do make this call with AQo (unless PF raiser is a rock)and just C/call the whole way. Is this bad??

If you were in the BB then I would make the call at a 50% discount.

In summary, I don't think the call is super bad, but I think it is a $$ loser in the longrun.

jason_t · #16 08-18-2005, 07:13 AM

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hand was played way too passively
preflop call is fine IMO, but need to either c/r teh flop or the turn. that was u have a better way of knowing where you're at.

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lol

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why would you post this?

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Because the suggested line and supporting reasoning is rubbish.

This hand is trivial to play. Fold preflop but if you insist on calling then the correct line is check/call, check/call, bet/fold unless Hero improves to aces and tens.

oreogod · #17 08-18-2005, 07:18 AM

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hand was played way too passively
preflop call is fine IMO, but need to either c/r teh flop or the turn. that was u have a better way of knowing where you're at.

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lol

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why would you post this?

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Hahahaha. I would assume because of the line suggested. Preflop really depends on your opponent. But most of the time, it is a fold.

punter11235 · #18 08-18-2005, 07:19 AM

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correct line is check/call, check/call, bet/fold unless Hero improves to aces and tens.

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Do you think that's more probable that some QQ/JJ/A8 will call final bet than AQ/AJ miss final value bet ?

jason_t · #19 08-18-2005, 07:42 AM

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correct line is check/call, check/call, bet/fold unless Hero improves to aces and tens.

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Do you think that's more probable that some QQ/JJ/A8 will call final bet than AQ/AJ miss final value bet ?

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I hope you meet my ex-girlfriend.

JinX11 · #20 08-18-2005, 07:53 AM

I would fold pre-flop and thank myself when he shows AQ and takes the pot.

However, since I misclicked "Call", this seems like your quintessential "Way ahead, way behind" scenario; given your position and a drawless board, the standard line for me there is check-call the flop, check-call the turn, bet the river and fold to a raise.