AK in three-handed 5/10 NL (live) - Page 2

thatpfunk · #11 08-12-2005, 06:22 AM

I agree with Fimbul and check the flop.

It will entice bets by hand that you beat.

savman · #12 08-12-2005, 08:11 AM

in the event we are not already crushed villain is likely drawing to two outs; ergo, free cards are not a priority here, gaining value when ahead is. check on the flop allows us to gain money from AQ KK QQ 1010 hands etc. i cant see betting the flop causing positive things to happen with a weak tight villain.

gomberg · #13 08-12-2005, 09:16 AM

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What is with everyone and giving free cards??????

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The key to this game is having opponents make mistkes against you. If you can manipulate opponents into making large mistakes, then you are playing very well. In no-limit, this can take the form of giving some free cards that you would barely ever give in a limit setting because of bets in relation to pot size and future leverage of the pot size vs. stack size. If you don't think in these terms and just bet to "protect" your hand, then you will almost certainly be leaving money on the table, so to speak.

Rococo · #14 08-12-2005, 10:47 AM

Art,

I think that checking the flop here is bad advice. In order to beat a 3 handed game, you have to be aggressive and bet a lot flops (even those that you miss). This is especially true if you were the aggressor preflop. From a metagame perspective, Villain has to believe that you are capable of betting this flop with a big A, because you also are going to be betting at a lot of A high flops with nothing but air, and you need to have some fold equity when you do so.

In other words, if you are playing properly, I think that you are more likely to get money out of QQ or KK here if you lead the flop (as you did).

If you typically check-call or check raise only when you connect, you might as well turn your cards face up

mgsimpleton · #15 08-12-2005, 10:54 AM

leading at an A high flop is different from leading at an AJJ flop. I will almost never lead at an AJJ type flop with air or if I have it, if I continuation bet those flops it will often be on the turn.

turnipmonster · #16 08-12-2005, 11:07 AM

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585 in the pot with 510 behind. Turn is an 8 completing the rainbow. Now what do I do?

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I agree with checking the flop, but as played I think it's an easy turn push.

Rococo · #17 08-12-2005, 11:08 AM

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leading at an A high flop is different from leading at an AJJ flop.

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Not really. The chances of Villain having a J here are fairly remote, and a thinking Villain is not likely to put Hero on a J either given the big reraise from the SB.

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I will almost never lead at an AJJ type flop with air or if I have it, if I continuation bet those flops it will often be on the turn.

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I play it the way you describe probably 25% of the time. If I were playing this hand in a vacuum (i.e. no metagame), I take your line every time. I guess it depends on Hero's image at this point. I play VERY LAG 3-handed, so it would be conspicuous for me to check this flop here.

turnipmonster · #18 08-12-2005, 11:09 AM

why are there so many different bobs on the site? there's actionbob, pokerbob, classicbob, and now fryingbob. what's the deal?

mgsimpleton · #19 08-12-2005, 11:11 AM

it is not about whether villain has a J. you're playing HU, when there are three cards on the board, there are three pairs villain can have and be losing and still call a bet or raise or whatever.

on AJJ it can only be a weaker ace that calls and is behind. there are so few hands you are beating. the only way i might bet this is if there was a read that villain had been DYING to play back and you thought he might try to represent a J so much that you'd back your stack w/ that read.

otherwise you have to stop thinking about only your cards and what you are worried about. think about what you are not worried about but what you can get value from. here it is very little, so yes AJJ is worlds different from AJ7 or whatever.

mgsimpleton · #20 08-12-2005, 11:13 AM

also i have had the mistake of people saying crap like "its just too obvious if i check the flop." so what? you are still not going to generate action from hands you don't beat.

or when you raise 88 and flop comes 855 (it's just too obvious if i check) so you bet and everyone folds. unless it is a hyper aggro game and you have a crazy image if no one has sh-it theyre usually not going to play back at you. slow playing is actually allowed despite how we've berated the whole idea daily on this forum.