Craps: Explain to me place number bets.

[Abagadro]

Typo. Hit the 9 instead of the 0 on that one. Good catch.

[PhatCasino]

so it seems like if you are gonna do place bets.. 6 and 8 would be the way to go... anyone look into Scoblete's 5-count?

[ChipWrecked]

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can you remove these bets at anytime like odds bets or are they stuck there forever like pass and come bets?

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you can put place bets up or take them down as you please. if the point is made, those chips are "off" on the next come-out roll unless you specify that you want them on.

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The lingo for this is "Keep it working"

[magiluke]

I know that you are not supposed to ever place 4 or 10, but instead buy them for smaller edge. I don't know what the edge is, but I'll look it up really quick...

Buy 4 || 10 - 1.67%
Buy 5 || 9 - 2.00%
Buy 6 || 8 - 2.27%

Ok, well the 4 and 10 are much better, and it looks like the 5 and 9 are better too... I wonder why I've never heard that it's good to buy the 5 and 9... Anyway, obviously you should stick to placing the 6 an 8.

Anyone care to explain the 5 and 9, cause I'm in the dark on that one.

[playersare]

where the heck are you getting those buy odds from? all buy bets pay true odds but with a 5% commission ($1 minimum) back to the house, making the edge 4.76% on all point numbers. the numbers you listed look like they were made up on the spot.

sometimes if you have a good relationship with the table, you can try and negotiate a lower commission, such as $25+1 instead of $20+1. if you believe a guy like Scoblete, he says it's possible to bargain down to $38+1, which brings the HA down to 2.5%, which is still not better than the place 6 and 8.

if you truly want to play the 4 and 10, then obviously better to buy them rather than place them. but there's really no justification to play them at all, even if you manage to cut the commission down to 1/38 which I think is not very realistic to begin with.

[Abagadro]

I haven't looked into Scoblete's. Is it online somewhere?

I usually stear clear of place bets altogether because (assuming it is a good table that allows at least 10x odds), you can do much better at lowering the house edge by playing come/max odds. If you are part of the "don't want to have to hit it twice" mentality, I can try to disabuse you of that.

Anywyas, if I am feeling particularly frisky and the number is a 6 or 8, I will sometimes place the other one and then place my come bet. It covers that place bet a bit for a establish point-then-immediate-seven type of situation. If the place bet hits, I then convert it to the come bet and move the original place bet and the winnings from hitting it into the odds. I'm giving up some HA over a straight come bet strategy, but like I said, do it when feeling frisky.

I can't think of any other way I would play a place bet. Lousy HA and if you get in a run of establish point-seven-establish point-seven it will murder your roll.

[playersare]

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I haven't looked into Scoblete's. Is it online somewhere?

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even if it is, I wouldn't bother personally.

basically the "strategy" is only to place bets on shooters who have rolled at least 5 point numbers in his/her turn without sevening out. rolls of 2, 3, 11 and 12 are okay for counts 1 through 4, but count 5 (which signals you to begin betting) must be a point number. once you hit the "5-count" then you can begin betting pass and come for up to three numbers...then Scobe gets into some other contraption called "Law or Four" which I won't even try to explain here.

this is obviously not a mathematically logical gameplan and Frank provides no hard numbers to prove that it makes a difference or not over just straight playing.

[craig r]

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I haven't looked into Scoblete's. Is it online somewhere?

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even if it is, I wouldn't bother personally.

basically the "strategy" is only to place bets on shooters who have rolled at least 5 point numbers in his/her turn without sevening out. rolls of 2, 3, 11 and 12 are okay for counts 1 through 4, but count 5 (which signals you to begin betting) must be a point number. once you hit the "5-count" then you can begin betting pass and come for up to three numbers...then Scobe gets into some other contraption called "Law or Four" which I won't even try to explain here.

this is obviously not a mathematically logical gameplan and Frank provides no hard numbers to prove that it makes a difference or not over just straight playing.

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Do people really do this crap. I am not saying don't play craps. If you think it is fun and want to gamble go ahead. But, why have a system. The only "reasonable" system seems to be stay away from the field bet, don't bet on the 6 or 8 even money, stay away from the props, etc... But, to have any other type of system sounds silly.

craig

p.s. I don't really play craps. But, if I go to a casino with friends and I play poker the whole time I feel I am not spending time with them. So, sometimes when they are playing craps, I will let them place the pass line bet and then I will bet the max odds. I figure making my friends happy for neutral EV is worth it. This has only happened like 4 times and I won all 4 times.

[ChipWrecked]

I like craps in part because it is more social. When a table is hot it's a lot of fun to be cheering with everybody else who's winning.

You'd have to run waaay more trials than I ever will to realize expectation. It's totally luck for me, which means I might just score a lifetime win. [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]

(that doesn't mean I make the dumb bets. but I do like to place the 6 and 8)

[craig r]

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(that doesn't mean I make the dumb bets. but I do like to place the 6 and 8)


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I meant the one that is at the corner. I forgot what it is called. Like "Big 6 and 8". Something like that.

craig