Mid PP in BB - come play along?

[deception5]

[ QUOTE ]
Disregarding the made up reads, forcing weaker hands to fold while your hand is second best is good for you because it increases your chances of winning.

That is, unless I have misunderstood that concept. Someone help me here.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is not true when your hand has little chance of improving. No better hand is folding here, the hands you want to fold are things like overcards which have 6 outs against you.

If we have the second best hand, knocking out others doesn't help us.

[bozlax]

Are you advocating becoming a calling-station for the rest of the hand?

[detruncate]

While that's sometimes true, second best hand here isn't going to be helped much by folds. Trips or better aren't folding. We don't clean up outs. If we hit, everyone except a higher pair are drawing dead.

On the other hand, we're thrilled if people fold overcards when we're ahead. If we think Villain will auto-raise the flop, we should lead. He's probably happy to try to blow out the field with 6 probable outs in this reasonably big pot, as we're very unlikely to be leading trips.

[@bsolute_luck]

[ QUOTE ]
Are you advocating becoming a calling-station for the rest of the hand?

[/ QUOTE ]

no. the play along has stopped on the flop. i'm waiting for the next step [img]/images/graemlins/smirk.gif[/img]

i guess at this point for the flop my questions would be:
1) if we donkbet and all 4 simply call, now what?
2) if we check, villain bets and it is raised, are we folding for 2 back to us?
3) if you check/raise and all are still in the hand, what are you doing on the turn? what cards do you continuation bet on? do you check/fold other cards? or what?

[albedoa]

[ QUOTE ]
While that's sometimes true, second best hand here isn't going to be helped much by folds. Trips or better aren't folding. We don't clean up outs. If we hit, everyone except a higher pair are drawing dead.

On the other hand, we're thrilled if people fold overcards when we're ahead. If we think Villain will auto-raise the flop, we should lead. He's probably happy to try to blow out the field with 6 probable outs in this reasonably big pot, as we're very unlikely to be leading trips.

[/ QUOTE ]

Ah, yes. That's why I added the disclaimer to my post--I reread it and thought I was betting out for the wrong reason.

The fact is we don't know if we are ahead, but we very well could be. That's why we bet out and hope for a raise.

However, it's possible to fold a hand like 99 when it's faced with two cold. Just a thought [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

[bozlax]

I think check/raising this flop does nothing for you. I'm inclined to bet out and hope that Villan makes a continuation raise with overcards and the two limpers fold. The other option I'm liking more and more as I think about it is to check the flop, call a bet from Villan (fold to a bet from anybody else on the theory that Villan is check-raising?) to close the action, and then check-raise a safe (i.e. sub-7) card on the turn.

[bozlax]

Suddenly realized that my response didn't answer your questions.

[ QUOTE ]
1) if we donkbet and all 4 simply call, now what?

[/ QUOTE ]

Hero's effed. He's almost forced himself to bet-fold the turn, which is a big part of the reason I don't like betting out the flop.

[ QUOTE ]
2) if we check, villain bets and it is raised, are we folding for 2 back to us?

[/ QUOTE ]

I think this may be the easiest fold ever. You've got a strong indication that you're not the best hand (you might not even be the 3rd best hand depending on what the fourth player in the hand does) and it's going to be awfully expensive to show down that losing hand.

[ QUOTE ]
3) if you check/raise and all are still in the hand, what are you doing on the turn? what cards do you continuation bet on? do you check/fold other cards? or what?

[/ QUOTE ]

Another supremely ugly situation, and one that I think is extremely likely if we go for the check-raise (any limper that'll stay in for one on this flop will stay in for one more). In this case I think you're forced to continuation-bet any card that falls, and hope there's a blackout so that your disconnect-protect kicks in.

[gharp]

Interesting situation. I'm going to join the check on the flop camp. Fold to a raise, raise a late position bettor, call anyone else and see the turn.

[MrWookie47]

[ QUOTE ]
Interesting situation. I'm going to join the check on the flop camp. Fold to a raise, raise a late position bettor, call anyone else and see the turn.

[/ QUOTE ]

[crownjules]

Betting out does risk just having everyone call me, but C/C seems the same, but I don't have control of the hand. What about the increased FE I gain on a turn blank?