Playing marginal hands in late position with multiple players posting

[Buzz]

Hi Felicia - Congratulations on your becoming moderator. (And good luck).

I can certainly see not playing the hand. I can't find my copy of Zee right now, but as I recall, Ray writes, "but you don't play a pair of nines in this game." I'm probably taking Ray out of context and I'm not sure I'm quoting him exactly, but I don't disagree with avoiding playing 99XY hands, even double suited, and even on the button. Thus I'll agree that folding 2499d has merit.

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But I don't play the very worst hands, even on the button.

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Me neither. However, this is not one of the very worst hands. Not by a long shot.

Just my opinion.

Buzz

[Buzz]

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If I choose to play in this situation, I'm playing it for a preflop raise.

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Air humper - From the button when it looks like you'll have six opponents??

Why?

Buzz

[FeliciaLee]

Thanks, Buzz [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

The difference between someone like you playing 99xx on the button for one bet, and someone like me playing 99xx on the button for one bet is that you are a better player, who will be less likely to get "lost" in the hand. I am very tight, too passive and fold too easily. In my case, I would either win a tiny pot, or lose a big one if I got too caught up in my hand.

A player like me, well, I think I'm better off just not getting involved at all.

Felicia [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

[Wintermute]

Prefer to get some of that posted money in there dead, plus I'll buy myself 4 cards against most competition by taking the lead preflop.

[kitaristi0]

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Prefer to get some of that posted money in there dead, plus I'll buy myself 4 cards against most competition by taking the lead preflop.

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Are you talking about limit or PL? I can see this working in PL, but i'm not too sure about limit.

[Buzz]

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Not to beat a dead a horse.

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DOMIT - It's not going to win the Kentucky derby, but it's not a dead horse either.

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but this is why playing pairs like 99 sucks so badly. You never really have the nuts.

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Obviously you always like to have the nuts. But you don't always need the nuts.

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If the board is 9-high, it brings a low and you're mostly likely splitting the pot--unless someone makes a low straight, which will happen often enough.

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You don't just have a pair of nines here. You also have two wheel cards. And the hand is double suited. And you're on the button with things looking like you'll get to see the flop cheaply. Yes, if the flop comes 9-high, low will likely be possible - but you might be the one winning for low - and with a nine on the flop, you might be scooping.

But it's certainly not bad advice, especially to a beginner, to fold the hand.

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Should the board come as it did without a low draw, you don't have the nuts because there's at least one overcard.

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True. But if the game stopped right after the flop, Hero is about a nine to one favorite to have the winner. Never a guarantee about my math, but that's how I have it figured.

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Low limit O8, you want to play the nuts;

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Of course. But that's true in any game. You want to play the nuts. And in low limit O8 you can wait for the nuts. And that's a style of play that is very good advice for beginners because it's relatively very safe.

But yeesh... after just a short while, playing like a rock becomes a very boring way to play this game, at least at low limits. You win, but not much. And if you have weak or mistake-prone opponents, you're giving up lots of profit. I certainly don't mean to imply you should play every hand, or even most of them. But you have to be in the hand to profit from an opponent's mistakes.

For example, against a pair of chasers (possibly as here), you should want to be in the hand, even sometimes when you don't have the nuts.

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you'll usually not have them playing medium to low pairs.

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I completely agree with you. You won't usually have the nuts playing medium to low pairs. I think one should tend to avoid starting hands with low pairs, and in general, to also avoid starting hands with medium cards, paired or not.

2499d is marginal at best as a starting hand. But if you're ever going to play that hand (and I'm not recommending that you do), this is the time and place.

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Should you have something like A22x, definitely playable..and should you end up flopping trip ducks..you have to play carefully.

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Agreed.

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Many a time I've wished I just mucked my set on the flop.)

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I'd rather have the board pair below my flopped set than above it. At least with nines there's generally a better chance of the board pairing beneath a flopped set than above it.

(After this particular flop, that's not true. Since Hero holds a deuce and there is a deuce and queen on the flop, there's actually a better chance of the board pairing above Hero's nines than below them. Then after the turn, it's even more true that the board, if it pairs, will pair above Hero's nines.)

Just my opinion.

Buzz