McEvoy's Cardplayer quiz #5

[curtains]

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I would also not limp in pre-flop under those conditions. With 2 limpers ahead of you, I would either fold or raise.

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This is a terrible way to approach poker. Folding is ridiculous, you don't have to either "be aggressive or get out". Your hand plays well multiway, and it doesn't play well if you get action after making the pot large preflop.

[burningyen]

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I would also not limp in pre-flop under those conditions. With 2 limpers ahead of you, I would either fold or raise.

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You really think folding is better than limping?

[burningyen]

What he said.

[pokerraja]

In a high buy-in WPT event folding is probably the best play. But in an online super or similar buy-in I would probably reraise/ push in this situation. agree?

[curtains]

Of course in some games/situations not folding the turn would make sense..

[MLG]

I raise preflop most of the time. but there's nothing wrong with calling. On the flop its pretty awkward. If you were deeper betting is good to build a pot, if you were shallower betting is good to try and bet-reraise all-in. With 80x there's still soem merit to betting hoping to get it HU and take it down with a turn bet, but generally checking is ok. Turn is completely table dependent.

This hand is a giant meh. Its a stupid quiz hand because the right preflop and flop actions are highly table and image dependent.

[KramerTM]

As usual, I have to agree with Curtains here. This is a PERFECT hand to limp with after others have limped PF. There's almost no reason to be raising here! If you get called, you're in trouble (and possibly out of position). If it gets folded... big deal! The blinds are so tiny at this point that it's not worth the risk.

Just to be clear, I think folding is the worst choice here. When you have the oppurtunity to limp PF for this cheap giving you nearly infinite implied odds to the flop, you HAVE to take it. Even if you plan to fold unless you hit the nut flush or nut straight by the turn... you still have to see the flop.

BTW... I bought McEvoy's/Cloutier's Championship Hold'em last year for a class at college. Never opened it. Is it really that bad? Should I just return the damn thing and get something else? (Already own HoH1 and HoH2).

[curtains]

I don't know they fill the books up with very general advice and very little specifics. I basically hated every book I read by McEvoy/Cloutier

[PennDisc]

I think there's a fair case for not raising in middle position with the stacks this deep. Making a standard raise (4-5xBB) might buy me the button, but probably won't fold anyone who already limped due to the blinds being so low. I'm not willing to raise more to try to get them to fold because there's nothing in the pot so the risk/reward ratio isn't quite there. Also, with my position there's a chance someone behind me will wake up with a big hand and raise me out of the pot without even seeing the flop. Other problem is that with K high I'm probably not ahead.

After limping I'm not semi-bluffing the flop into 6 other players. Buying a pot with a 2/3 pot bet with this many opponents is just not going to happen. And if one of the players behind me raises, it's a disaster. I'd much rather check to see what happens. A free card is good for me here. If someone bets behind me and gets callers, I am in good position to call for my draw with the additional odds they provide. (Checkraise all-in on the flush+overs is an option too depending on pot-size when it comes back to me but that's a different discussion.)

Edit: BTW, folding preflop for T50 is absolutely ridiculous, the worst of all options.

[curtains]

I can't imagine ever making a raise after limpers in NL holdem for the sole purpose of "buying the button".