Lost with a set 4 way - Page 2

jhall23 · #11 08-02-2005, 09:09 AM

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I expect you'll find yourself against top pair and a flush draw pretty often in this spot.

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Yes, this is what I was afraid of. I was hoping to see top pair and an overpair. In any case, I guess this isn't that complicated a hand and I was just annoyed by results oriented thinking.

I made it $100 to go and everyone insta-folded. Weird.

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Yeah, I think that was the way to go. You could easily be facing some combo draw from UTG that was looking for MP to raise so he could push. But him being a tight wad, he chickened out when you came over the top. Or he's one of those donks that leads small with regular old flush draws hoping to price himself in.

MP probably didn't have much (or TPish) and was just offended by the weak lead and spite raised the tight-passive to get a fold, but then couldn't stand your heat.

I assume given these players that you had a good aggro image. I think you should have been able to get paid by some hands here.

TheWorstPlayer · #12 08-02-2005, 09:16 AM

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I assume given these players that you had a good aggro image. I think you should have been able to get paid by some hands here.

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I did. And I thought so, too, especially since I had just doubled up MP. I was hoping he was going to stack off to me here but it just wasn't meant to be.

fuzzbox · #13 08-02-2005, 09:50 AM

Maybe a push would have looked like it *could* be a semi-bluff. Your raise after a bet and a raise just oozed with strength. Dunno if a push woulda been called, but perhaps it appears to be weaker.

TheWorstPlayer · #14 08-02-2005, 10:15 AM

Stacks are pretty deep. And I'm guessing that the first guy has some marginal crap and the second guy had something like AQ and was just raising the weak bet. Then I came over the top and they just both had nothing. I don't see how they can fold TPTK or better there. I definitely had a good image for getting paid off. Oh well, sometimes it just doesn't work out. I actually sat for most of my time bank deciding whether or not to raise but then I just decided I had to build a pot and also the weak lead might be a flush draw so I raised. Too bad they folded.

Ghazban · #15 08-02-2005, 10:25 AM

As others have pointed out, you don't have any good options here. Due to the action in front of you, you are forced to define your hand. I don't think flat calling can be correct without a specific read that somebody else is going to reraise (close to impossible to get such a read online; live, you might be able to).

I've been thinking a bit about these situations (i.e. where any action you take defines your hand fairly clearly) as I've run into quite a few of them lately and I don't see any way out. Its one thing if you plan on checkraising a strong hand and its get raised and reraised before it gets back to you (in which case, you could've avoided defining your hand by leading out yourself but, as the action went, you can't avoid it at that point) but when there's heavy action in front of you, I don't think there's anything you can do that doesn't effectively turn your cards face up.

I hope I'm wrong, though, as I hate making it very easy for people to play correctly from a FTOP standpoint...

TheWorstPlayer · #16 08-02-2005, 10:30 AM

I think the only thing that you do here is raise big enough that they are paying too much for the information. Also, you can 'turn your hand up' with a different hand (i.e. I could raise here with air or a flush draw).

Ghazban · #17 08-02-2005, 10:34 AM

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I think the only thing that you do here is raise big enough that they are paying too much for the information. Also, you can 'turn your hand up' with a different hand (i.e. I could raise here with air or a flush draw).

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I don't believe for a millisecond that you're 3betting air in this game. Big draw or big made hand (top two at worst, more likely a set) certainly, but no way are you doing it with less. Bigger game or specific read and I might buy it but in this hand, no way.

TheWorstPlayer · #18 08-02-2005, 10:36 AM

Oh, I completely agree. I was just stating a theoretical answer to the problem of being forced to 'turn your hand up' but the previous action. In these online games, though, where guys are ridiculously loose postflop and they come and go after ten minutes there is no point in, say, raising to 100 with a flush draw here. Just calling is better.

GrunchCan · #19 08-02-2005, 11:13 AM

I have 2 newbie thoughts.

1) MP looks to me like he's trying to protect against the flush draw.

2) Given the tightness of UTG, is this not the perfect time for a squeeze play? Put in a big raise forcine UTG to fold anything that isnt top set, and take your hand up against MP's likely TPTK type holding.

djoyce003 · #20 08-02-2005, 11:41 AM

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you make it 100. not a problem getting action on this board given the action thus far.

fim

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I'm going to respectfully disagree here. Reason being, against a bet, raise, then reraise, people tend to drop out like rocks. I have a little more gamble in me. I think you can safely assume that someone is drawing here. If you make it 100 straight they are folding. If you call you can get more out of them on a non flush turn and you have full house outs as well even if the flush or straight hits. I think a raise to $100 here wins you 43 bucks and folds everyone out. If you are going to raise, i'd probably do a cheezy minraise here at most.