TT Hand, Play Along - Page 2

baronzeus · #1 07-29-2005, 04:35 PM

I cap here 100% of the time.

fizzleboink · #2 07-29-2005, 04:49 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I cap here 100% of the time.

[/ QUOTE ]

Wouldn't it be better to just call and see if there's a cap by someone else? If there is, you'll know you're probably up against a higher pocket pair and you'll know that you have to hit a set to continue (apart from AKs I guess).

WSOP Bound · #3 07-29-2005, 05:02 PM

Why would we cap? I do see an aspect that a cap is likely anyways and we will certainly call it, but I'd like to see who it is that has a strong enough hand that they cap it themselves. Of course the other possibility is that it just gets called and we know that nobody was willing to cap it.

baronzeus · #4 07-29-2005, 05:07 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Why would we cap? I do see an aspect that a cap is likely anyways and we will certainly call it, but I'd like to see who it is that has a strong enough hand that they cap it themselves. Of course the other possibility is that it just gets called and we know that nobody was willing to cap it.

[/ QUOTE ]

8% PFR is still a very wide range, and you are ahead of most of it, especially if they are sharing high cards (like AQ vs AK or something). On another note, just calling only gives you a better read on one player: the first raiser in. While it's good to have a decent idea of what the EP raiser has, since you are ahead of most of his hands, throw in a cap for value if nothing else.

Plus, if you just call, you have to c/f any flop with an over, which pretty much sucks.

WSOP Bound · #5 07-29-2005, 05:13 PM

Am I just thinking weak-tight if I want to call because if I don't catch my set and the flop has overs than my hand is pretty much sunk with this action? The way I'm seeing it is that a lot of the big cards have to be in play given this action. Granted I doubt that the flop will ever be an auto-fold because in most cases I will be getting proper odds to see the turn with my two-outer if I miss the flop.

WSOP Bound · #6 07-29-2005, 05:07 PM

I decided to call the flop and it gets capped by MP1. So now we have:

Preflop: Hero is BB with T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
UTG+1 calls, MP1 raises, 1 fold, MP3 calls, 1 fold, Button calls, SB 3-bets, Hero calls, UTG calls, Dr calls, MP1 caps, MP3 calls, Button folds, SB calls, Hero calls, UTG calls, UTG+1 calls.

Flop: (29 SB) 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 4[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (6 players)
SB checks, Hero ???

Originally I called and was playing for set value, but this pot is big and I have an overpair. What's the line on this flop?

baronzeus · #7 07-29-2005, 05:10 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I decided to call the flop and it gets capped by MP1. So now we have:

Preflop: Hero is BB with T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
UTG+1 calls, MP1 raises, 1 fold, MP3 calls, 1 fold, Button calls, SB 3-bets, Hero calls, UTG calls, Dr calls, MP1 caps, MP3 calls, Button folds, SB calls, Hero calls, UTG calls, UTG+1 calls.

Flop: (29 SB) 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 4[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (6 players)
SB checks, Hero ???

Originally I called and was playing for set value, but this pot is big and I have an overpair. What's the line on this flop?

[/ QUOTE ]

This is one of the reasons I cap. Now you still have no idea if you're beat, since AA-JJ as well as AK and possibly AQs are all in his range. If you had capped, you could bet here, and re-evaluate if raised by MP1 or LP raiser. When someone raises a preflop capper on a raggy board, he usually has the goods.

WSOP Bound · #8 07-29-2005, 05:20 PM

[ QUOTE ]
This is one of the reasons I cap. Now you still have no idea if you're beat, since AA-JJ as well as AK and possibly AQs are all in his range. If you had capped, you could bet here, and re-evaluate if raised by MP1 or LP raiser. When someone raises a preflop capper on a raggy board, he usually has the goods.

[/ QUOTE ]

Originally I wasn't quite following the cap logic, but I think I see that here. When this situation comes up that there is no way that big cards (i.e AQs, AK, etc...) connected to this flop we have represented a big pair (in most opponents minds probably even bigger than TT) and a raise most likely means that it doesn't scare him too much. Which gives us a pretty good read putting him somewhere in the QQ-AA range most likely.

This is something I may have to reconsider in the future.

deception5 · #9 07-29-2005, 05:24 PM

[ QUOTE ]
This is one of the reasons I cap. Now you still have no idea if you're beat, since AA-JJ as well as AK and possibly AQs are all in his range. If you had capped, you could bet here, and re-evaluate if raised by MP1 or LP raiser. When someone raises a preflop capper on a raggy board, he usually has the goods.

[/ QUOTE ]

I like this, good post.

bozlax · #10 07-29-2005, 06:01 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Now you still have no idea if you're beat, since AA-JJ as well as AK and possibly AQs are all in his range.

[/ QUOTE ]

I disagree with this. You actually know that there's a strong chance you're beat (24 ways of making AA-JJ vs. 12 ways of making AK/AQs), and if you're not beat MP1 has clean outs to draw out on you. I think with a pot this big you have to stay in it, but I don't see Hero having a reasonable chance of winning UI, and you want to get to showdown as cheaply as possible.